- Michael M.: Too much going on. Life in flux, etc..
- Sunshine: Wow, I was soooo happy to see a new post in my rss reader. I was hopping this is already the comeback! :(...
- gandalf: Did you only get caffeine through Dr.p or did you drink coffee as well? I’m interested, since...
- neeka: nine kilos… wow… :) happy holidays to you, michael, and to all your loved ones! veronica
- m: It was a bargain. No strings attached.
Ljubljana, Slovenia.
Maribor, Slovenia.
Portoroz, Slovenia.
• AlienMelon
• Burger.si
• Heck
• Izklop
• si.blogs
• Sloblogi
• Blogorola
• Natalija Verboten
Danilo Tuerk, Slovenia’s next president. [source]
Yesterday, during an important drinking holiday, Slovenes went to the polls and overwhelmingly voted for former UN diplomat Danilo Tuerk to serve as the country’s next president. The post of president is largely ceremonial in Slovenia, but the race was seen as providing some hints about how next year’s parliamentary elections might go.
And what was the hint? That the current government is in serious trouble. According to unofficial results, Tuerk (who had the backing of the opposition parties) took 70% of the vote.
I’ve always found Slovenian elections to be mysterious; this one was no exception. I’m especially confused by lopsided results like this one. It’s worth pointing out that the country has been chugging along steadily since independence. The economy is growing, people are prospering, and Slovenia is regularly singled out internationally as a post-socialist wunderkind. But still the public seems to suddenly and inexplicably turn on its ruling party with a fierce vengeance that can only be described as surprising.
When I first came here, the LDS was the party in charge. They basically helped steer the country to EU and NATO membership; they even got the economy Euro-ready. These were no small feats — and they were rewarded with such an intense thrashing in the previous election that they virtually don’t exist anymore. They’re currently a splintered party on the sidelines, while the socialists look set to take over next year.
Indeed, the same destiny seems to be waiting for the current government. Obviously opinions vary on its performance, but as a whole the country is prospering and racking up high-profile successes abroad: the EU presidency next year, for example. But opinion polls (and Tuerk’s landslide victory) augur hard times ahead for the center-right.
I’d hate to see what would happen to a Slovenian government during a recession, or God forbid, a depression. Judging by how hard voters treat governments now, I’m guessing there would be rioting involved…
Congratulations to the president-elect!
Comments
Comments for this post are closed.
Oh, I don’t know about the harsh treatment. LDS collected three consecutive terms, that is hardly harsh. I for one would be very happy if the turnaround was a bit shorter. Gotta let the gov’t know they’re not the boss of the people and all that. Wishful thinking
Es sieht ja glatt so aus, als ob auch hier jemand die Taste Ü gut gebrauchen könnte…
crni: What I can’t figure out is 3 consecutive, successful terms topped off by total annihilation.
Robert: I just realized that keyboards here aren’t even equipped with umlaut-u. Anyone know the shortcut?
Michael: Alt Gr U, I was told. That is: Alt on the right plus U for those who don’t have Alt Gr.
Or Shift+key-next-to-1, followed by U. You’ll learn.
On a windows machine Alt+0220 and Alt+0252 should work: while pressing the Alt-button you have to type 0 2 2 0
The economy is growing, but the pay is lower or the same, only few got their pay raised. If you ask me, that’s the problem.
Let’s see if this works: &#uuml;
What about this: ü
So Michael you have to write & uuml; but without any the space between & and u.
Another possibility:
Alt Gr + key to the right from zero (the ? key)
then “u”, “a”, “o”
Or you copy it from my blog (for free!) under the link Robert used above.
I don’t know about you guys, but if I were the president I’d want my people to write my name correctly, no -ue- escape routes and stuff.
Good Lord, I think my best option is to do a Google search for umlaut u, copy, and then paste. I’m never going to remember any of these tips. The only code my brain can hold is the Konami Code from my childhood.
BTW: Thanks to everyone for the well wishes when I was sick last week. I appreciated them!
“The economy is growing, people are prospering, and Slovenia is regularly singled out internationally as a post-socialist wunderkind.”
Michael, have you tried to buy cheese lately? Do you bake your own bread yet? Are you crossing the Austrian border to do the shopping like in the good old days?
Sure, we’re doing Ok, but we’re doing far from great and most importantly far from as well as we could have been doing.
Since you ask, the previous government combo/LDS was not mazochistically punished for doing well, but for spreading into all pores of the economy and privatizing public interests. The people wanted to see a change. Guess what, they’re not seeing it. It’s ‘isto sranje, drugo pakovanje’. The game’s the same, just the players are different.
BTW, I firmly believe we’d all pull together during a depression.
Good to see you back, but check if the fever’s back
I will happily concede that things could be better, and that prices are sadly up (and yes, I do make my own bread now) but there is no widespread malaise. Cities are booming; I only see constant building and renovating, with massive houses popping up like mushrooms in the hills. I kind of see it the other way: I can’t believe things are going so well for so many. I don’t really get it.
Spot on filomena!
I partially agree, filomena, but I still think the former government had some smarter heads in and hasn’t done such big mistakes.
@Michael M: Are cities truly booming? What you see is construction not of production facilities or of office areas dedicated to high added-value services, but rather shopping centres erected by multinational corporations and possibly entertainment centres. Oh and residential buildings where people can’t really afford apartments, but are taking out loans that will chain them to their for the next few decades.
btw, I’m just finishing the next one in my “real estate in Slovenia” series for the blog, this time on financing real estate purchase here…
It’s tough, Michael. Not for everyone, that’s granted. But most people are nt doing nearly as well as they should have been considering the energy and time they’re investing in their training and work. And incompetence can’t be the reason in all of these cases…
@esk: I don’t doubt the intelligence of the people in any Slovenian government. I don’t think dumb folks could really climb quite as high (not in this country
). I do tend to question some of these people’s motives, however.
sure, but intelligence is also knowing when to stop…
(not pushing it all the way to referendum)
@Michael M: Referring to your umlaut problem you can always go into you “Regional & Language options” in the control panel. Go to the Languages tab in the new popup window, and under “text services & input languages” and hit the details button…that should pop up a screen where you can add German. Then when you’re in the German keyboard mode the key is just “[” for the umlaut. Switching between modes is quite easy since it’s a point and click language button on your taskbar.
Agreeing with the good doctor, I’d just like to add the following: The result was a bit suprising, but you must take into account the low turnout (56 percent). I think these elections were a yellow card for Janša’s government (inflation being the key factor here, plus the poor attempt at reforms).
I also think that most right wing voters stayed at home (not switching sides, but not toeing the party line either), whereas leftist voters are at the moment in the upswing, the more fervent of them on the brink of becoming all rabid at the slightest glimpse of Janša & Co.
And there’s another thing: Janša promised almost paradise on Earth, but instead he got us rising prices, lower pay, the Strojan family incident, revenge (think Janković/Mercator) and one political blunder after another.
People didn’t elect him to be an average PM, but because he said that he’ll do the job better than anyone else. Instead he’s surrounded himsself with a bunch of lunatics, who sometimes seem not to know what’s 2+2.
He’s been in power for three years and he cannot claim a single political ttrophy.
But this is politics in Slovenia. When politicians outlive their usefulness, people throw them away like an old rug. Mostly because politicians in this country don’t know when to quit. Which bring me to crni’s comment, with which I agree totally.
Üüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüüü!
Just a quibble, if I may…please don’t respell Danilo Türk’s last name as Tuerk. Linguist Donald Reindl explains why, in a letter to the BBC (which has been spelling it the way you do):
“The substitution “ue” for “ü” is a rather dated convention for rendering
German umlauts; the spelling of Mr. Türk’s name has nothing to do with German.
Just as you do not respell former Hungarian presidents Göncz and
Szűrös as “Goencz” and “Szueroes” and you do not respell PKK leader Öcalan’s name as “Oecalan”, you also should not respell President Türk’s name as “Tuerk”.
Because “ü” is part of the basic 7-bit ASCII character set, the name can simply be written “Türk” or, if you must, respelled without the diacritic as “Turk”.”
@Michael M: The umlaut has always been a bit of a trickster. My advice to you is to type a colon “:” and then tilt your head to one side. Whether you tilt your head to the left or the right is completely up to you, as the result will be the same. Hope this helps!
pengovsky: I don’t know about what paradise on Earth did JJ promise to use before he was elected. He promised reforms, but as you can see almost every reform the government proposes gets vetoed by the oligarhic State Council (particularly active during this mandate what makes me wonder where they have been the last 15 years??), obstructed by some minor coalition or opposition parties or hatched by the powerful syndicates. If we get lucky we only get a referendum.
The high prices is something what is common throughout the Europe. In Slovenia this is even more visible because of a certain hero by the name of Jankovic has more or less monopolized our entire retail trade. Add to this that lots of things here are still done by the old way - under the table instead on the table - it is not easier to figure our who is squezzing the profits out of this. One can only look who sits at pro-right assembly for Republic and who at pro-left Forum 21.
As for political trophy I am suprised that you see the purpose of politics in making political trophies. Drnovsek and Rop made many of them, most of them wrapped in a bubble and we did not have much use from them.
I personally think that Michael’s observation is correct. Cities are booming, I see many houses renovated with the windows, roofs, colour “fasades”, top-notch furniture, computers, cell phones, people fancily dressed up and two or three cars per household at least. Whenever I go to the supermarkets they are always full of customers.
If we are as poor as many claim to be than perhaps someone would explain to me where do you (they) get money from for gasoline, bags of food, boats, clothes, cell phone bills, internet etc. And most of us still can afford to go to the holidays during winter or summer.
I am sure that there are plenty of people around the world who would like to be that “poor”.
I think that the high turnout against Jansa has different rootes. One is definately the media hysteria. Slovenes almost never critically comprehend the news but take for granted almost everything what they hear, no matter if it is true or not. And secondly is Jansa’s political colour and what is probably even more important the fact the background of his father.
Forgiving the politicians… Not entirely true, Michael. There was a total collaps of economy in 1980s and we still elected Milan Kucan for President. I will never understand what deamon did reposess us to do this suicidal move.
Karel: next thing you’re gonna say is that discarded bread can be seen in all garbage bins, I suppose?
cry me a river. oh, and here’s a site that might interest you: www.calimero.com
Well truth to be told, maybe JJ the Great can actually find that bread in the garbage bins of his luxury apartments complex. Outside of it though, the only thing you see are people looking through the bins to find some of the discarded bread.
Karel, what Pengovsky said is spot on. Maybe JJ never used the word “paradise”, he did promise though to get rid of corruption, clientalism etc. Guess what, he didn’t get rid of it, only different people are being the players in the game this time around. And those that have worked under the previous governments and now this one will tell you, that while the previous government was stealing, they still always made sure to left of chocolate in the box. Now this one takes it all.
As for the economy growing and all that bullshit. Maybe the economy is growing, but most of the people (hear that the people) aren’t feeling it. All the are feeling is prices going up and their paychecks not following.
Then there’s all the legislation that went through in the parliament not because it was that good, but because it could. And at the end, lets not forget some of the completely incompetent people in the government cabinet.
@Cornelius: I second that!
I am not so fond of crni’s wish about turnaround. That was the main reasoning behind the change of the voting system into majority rule which was proposed by SDS and JJ. It would be disasterous if the election would change into a farse, where two biggest parties would mechanically change their position in the government (a la USandA). It is necessary that we keep the proportional voting system, which can in one or two terms enable that a complete strangers to politics get to the same spot.
This is a late comment but still: Michael, to understand Slovene/European politics one should understand history. Secondly, never is there only one reason for failure on election day. There are several reasons why Türk (note the umlaut ;)) won: 1. Peterle played all the wrong cards, the last one being to emphasize his role in 1991. Going back not forward. Not surprising since the right defines itself on its views of our history. 2. Attitudes towards Church (and it’s role in the past and present) is a strong motivator. Peterle was seen as their man. 3. Current political and economical climate is working against the government: inflation, prices, not being able to tackle important social issues (getting work, starting a family, …). I will not go into details and will not repeat what was already said but issues are complex. Not only in Slovenia but it is a European phenomenon.
For umlaut press shift, question mark and u.
I mean alt not shift.
Cornelius: …. next thing you’re gonna say is that discarded bread can be seen in all garbage bins, I suppose?….
Yes, people who never throw their garbage into garbage bins can only suppose for that’s the only thing they can actually do. But if you would ever look for a couple of seconds what it is inside you would notice that there is plenty of food in them, including bread. Now whether this is in every garbage bin throughout Slovenia I cannot say. neither I don’t think Jansa refered with his statement to every single garbage bin in this country. But who knows… perhaps this is not the case in some parts of Slovenia like in Ljubljana where as we know people massively starve 365 days a year and are on the verge of a new Darfur.
There are, if I am not mistaken, some journalists on this forum and blogs, so why don’t they make any reportage throughout Slovenia to explore whether JJ’s statement was correct or false? That’s called field work. Something what I am very much missing. It is much more useful for Slovene society than signing petitions and philosophing in advance without checking the hard facts.
Anja: … maybe JJ the Great…
Anja The Little: Political sarcasm does not really fit you well.
….garbage bins of his luxury apartments complex….
Where does JJ live in Ljubljana? I can find bread in our garbage bins around weeks and I live in a middle-class neighbourhood in Styria. Perhaps you would care to elaborate your statement?
….Outside of it though, the only thing you see are people looking through the bins to find some of the discarded bread….
But I thought there is no discarded bread in garbage bins?
Such images one can probably only see in Ljubljana, where homeless people often find plenty of good food in garbage bins. Hell, the other day I even saw a couple of them with cell phones! They are around the railway station and the post office near Telecom.
… Maybe JJ never used the word “paradise”, he did promise though to get rid of corruption, clientalism etc….
Pengovsky certainly did not say anything and certainly did not answer to any of my questions about high standard of Slovenes are enjoying today. His statement was purely populistic.
The upper statement of yours is in my opinion a typical socialist (communist?) thinking and understanding of the politics and the aspects which brings along. Don’t worry. I don’t hold this as a grouch towards you. Many Slovenes think like that today. In fact many people in former communist countries think the same. Even in East Germany.
Corruption, clientelism etc. are social appearances. You cannot abolish social appearances by law, new government etc. Like we will never 100% be able to exterminate poverty. Even rich countries like Denmark have/know it.
This is something what one can only defeat by education and self-discipline and God knows we did not have anything of that here for the last 50 years or so. You yourselve confirm this with your next statement about leaving the chocolate in a box.
What people like you expect is that as soon as the new government will take its aurels of power the corruption and clientelism will magically disappear. This is similar what communists thought when the marched in Ljubljana in 1945. They nationalized and ruinted private sector, imprisoned thousands of people, shot several thousand of them (”enemies of the people”) in order to create a new society and thought they have thus created a new classless society. In reality the gap between poor and rich class was even deeper than it was before the war. So let’s take some common sense in hands before coming out with such absurde statements. Even Finland did not achieve its level of corruption and economical prosperity over the night or not even in three years. It took them more than a decade of hard work on all segments of their society, including reforming the education and justice system, which here in Slovenia as we know is in a complete collaps.
….only different people are being the players in the game this time around….
Players like… former socialist minister of interior affairs Rado Bohinc who was recently elected for a new dean of the Primorska university? Mrs Kocjancic, the dean of the Ljubljana unviersity whose husband is none other than Janez Kocjancic? I thought that such cadres would find it impossible to get a new job in a “fascist and police republic” led by Janez Jansa.
…And those that have worked under the previous governments and now this one will tell you, that while the previous government was stealing, they still always made sure to left of chocolate in the box. Now this one takes it all…
Hehehe… So what are you saying is that previous governments was stealing and bribing (corrupting) the public servants with some chocolate remaining in the boxes for them to steal it? Cool. What do we call this if not corruption??? Is this not a reward for political loyalty which is as bad a clientelism if not even worse??
Luckily judging from your statement this government is just stealing like all governments tend to do and public servants are working hard like public servants should do and less… pardon… not stealing “chocolate from the box”.
…. As for the economy growing and all that bullshit…..
Really? Perhaps you would like to show us the inside and outside of your house? Tell us how many cars do you have in the family? Do you have internet? How many cell phones? What kind of TV? DVD player? What kind of clothes do you wear (referring to quality and quantatiy)? Did you go to the holidays this summer and where to? Answer to these questions and we will talk then about whether economy is growing or not.
….of the people (hear that the people) aren’t feeling it. All the are feeling is prices going up and their paychecks not following….
It’s funny you say this. I am sure you have a reasonable explanation why supermarkets ( I saw a new one is under construction near Leclerc) are always full of customers (even on Sundays (!)); why many family households have today up to two or three cars; almost everyone has a cell phone; internet; airports, particularly during winter and summer holidays are often full of young people travelling with ryanAir and Adria Airways to destinations like Cuba, USA, London, Bali, Australia…
If everything is as poor as you say where do these people get their money from to pay food, drink, gasoline, phone bills, travel checks… Please tell us with Pengovsky so that other “poor people” will be able to afford these luxuries of life as well.
Karel: aargh man, I wasn’t gonna reply to any more of your posts in this thread, but damn, you make it so hard…
First off, I’d like to aplaud you for the ad hominem. If I understood it correctly, you were drolly implying that I am a garbage can. Nicely done, sir, nicely done. Very witty.
Ok, now, let’s get to business. Let’s see if I understood you correctly. Jansa makes a statement regarding bread, and the biased journalists mar it and use it to sling mud. This was your implication, correct? I believe the statement, as I heard it was aproximately this: “Ne moremo govoriti da je stanje alarmantno, če pa v Ljubljani iz vsakega smetnjaka gledajo štruce kruha.” (in English: “How can we speak of an [economic] severity, when there’s loafs of bread in every trash can in Ljubljana”. *note: these may not be the exact words, but they’re very close). You see, this is the sort of statement that is hard to justify with the usual: “well, the journalists took it out of context”. I have a hard time imagining any context that might justify a statement like this. Anyway, to keep this shorter, I suggest further reading here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Antoinette
Anyway, fact remains that this is an arrogant statement. And being arrogant is political suicide. With or without biased media. With or without murky pinko conspiracies in the shadows.
Now, nobody is saying that Slovenes are starving, as you suggest in your straw man argumentation. Nobody is saying that Slovenes cannot afford cell phones or cars or travel abroad. Heck, Anja didn’t even deny existance of corruption in previous governments - again something you seem to be implying through the mouth of your pinko straw man. What some of the people here are saying (and I agree), is that Jansa promised things, got elected and given the oportunity to perform, and then failed to deliver. Like for instance, he promised to weed out corruption and protectionism, but instead we just got more of the same old same old. Again, before your straw man has any funny thoughts, I’m not saying that a different government would be certain to do better. I’m just saying Jansa did not live up to his pre-election promises. Nor am I saying that Yugoslavia or communism was a better economic enviroment (I’m just adding this for good measure, I have been accused of secretly idolising a bust of Stalin before, simply for expressing legitimate leftist ideas)
Oh and why can’t you people finally lay off the This-and-This-is-an-ex-communist routine? (Not to mention the ludicrous This-and-This-is-an-ex-communist’s-nephew routine…) It’s been sixteen years since the colapse of communism, in case you haven’t noticed. Sixteen years. It’s not coming back, no matter how much you may wish it to. Get over it. The ex-communist routine is getting old and embarassing. Especially with Jansa himself (among others in his party) being an ex-communist and all…
Oh, just one more thing: you really should try using your own words and thoughts sometimes. I’m sure regurgitating party talk points is much easier, but just give using your own words a shot. It’s liberating, you’ll see! Not to mention much more interesting for the rest of us to read.
What did the Queen say to JJ?
After you finish here, Janša go home!
@ Karel: Nice one, when there’s nothing else you can say, you go down to insulting people … why oh why does that sound so similar to our current government. Hmmm…
About my socialist (or communist - btw Communism Marx wrote about wasn’t really that bad) understanding of politics. It’s pretty clear to me, you don’t know much about any of it as far as what they are about, so no point in me arguing with you about it. But if you really knew anything about how communism worked in Yugoslavia on the level of political propaganda and spinning what people say, you’d know that what JJ is doing, it taken from their textbook. The only difference is, the people around him aren’t as smart as those in YU were.
@Cornelius: Thank you, spot on.
BTW Karel … go look at some of the indicators based on economics, education and innovations - what you’ll see is Slovenia slipping majorly on them, and other Eastern European countries catching up and moving ahead of us. We’re hardly the ex communist miracle anymore…
@Karel: you’re right. I didn’t answer a single question of yours. It is a futile task.
There are almost as many nonsences in your replies as there are sentences.
What you seem to fail to grasp is the fact that people voted against this government for a reason. To most of us reasons are obvious. Let me just give you a rather simple example (call it political tactics 101):
You mentioned Zoran Janković: Had Janša not removed him as CEO of Mercator, Janković would have not ran for mayor of Ljubljana, had not been elected and Janša would not have a major political problem on his hands.
But forget Janković, take Mitja Gaspari for example: had Janša left him in charge of the National bank, Gaspari would have not ran for president and helped at mobilizing the leftist voters, thus perhaps enabling Peterle’s victory in the first round.
And another thing - being in power is about political trophies. If you have nothing to show for, you’re voted out of office. Janša doesn’t have a single thing to show for, save an exceptional growth in GDP, which is heavily shadowed by inflation. And - quite frankly - people don’t care if inflation is high only in Slovenia or in Ireland too. Slovene voters vote for Slovene politicians, so they care little about inflation in Ireland.
And one more thing: like JJ you too seem to be insulted at the slap this government has received. I heavily suspect that if Peterle won, you would not even bother to comment on our rants here, although some of us would still go on about inflation and JJ’s dictatorial tendencies.
Cornelius:
1.) Yes, I noticed that some people take it very hard when they get replies from people who don’t always fully agree with their opinions or arguments if we are lucky to find any in their replies.
2.) I don’t know where did you get an idea that I referred to you as a garbage can?!?! I referred to you obviously never delivering/bringing/carrying the home garbage bags into your local garbage bin. Perhaps your wife or your kids do that in your household. If not, take a little bit of your time and look around. You don’t need to jump inside the bin or take the garbage out from it. Just a quick ten-second look will be quite sufficient.
3. Let’s say that you have fairly guessed the statement of Jansa. Being taken out of context or not it is really of little importance here. What is important here is that this statement was accepted by a huge outcry from the medias, opposition and a large part of the population. Let’s say that the reactions from the opposition and a part of population were fair and excusable. Politicians always exploit everything and people, especially Slovenes, don’t like to hear things, especially not if they are good. But I thought that some members of the media corps would first check what’s the status in the garbage bins in Ljubljana before writing their final judgement of Jansa’s statement. How can you say he was lying if you haven’t checked the facts? You certainly won’t see the facts by sitting in your office in front of your computer all day or while having a chit-chat with your friends at the nearby cafe. If the journalists can’t do that then I think it is best that they find themselves a new, less demanding intellectual job or simply shut up.
As for Marie Antoinette and her famous statement about bread and pate what I else can I say to a person who is comparing the end of 18th century with 21st century? In 1790 every Parisian (Paris had at the time 600,000 inhabitants) used daily 1 to 1.5kg of bread. That meant that each morning around 1200 bags of flour (each weighing about 157kg) had to be delivered otherwise the price of bread went sky high. It took the city porters from 23:00 to 7:00 in the morning next day to deliver them. Today with motor transport we don’t have such extremes. Unlike poor Parisians in 1790 the Slovenians in 2006 have a 15.167 GDP per capita so they can not only afford two loaves of bread per day but in many parts of the country we can even afford to buy them in the neighbouring countries.
I really don’t see how can this statement be interpreted as arrogant if we know that bakeries each day throw away 15 thousand tons of bread products. With that amount of bread we could probably feed the whole population of Darfur for one week.
What is an arrogant statement and nobody seem to remember it today is how in late 1940s after the Informbiro one of the Yugoslav negotiators (was it Velebit, Djilas or Kardelj I can’t remember anyone) said to one of the American negotiator from the trade commission who they were begging for food supplies that “Yugoslavs would rather eat grass than to accept any concessions”. Thank you but no thank you for such a statement. Naturally he did not mention that it shall be we the people who will be eating grass and not him (they).
4. corruption and protectionism: I think I have already said what I meant to say about this subject in my second e-mail to Anja. I find it rather amazing that someone at common sense today can think that corruption can be weed out over a night. It took 45 years of communism protectionism, clientelism and corruption plus a good decade of similar cock-up of the liberals and socialists to garbage the mentality and thinking of this nation and now you expect that everything will be solved in a year, two years or even three years??? It will take a decade or even more to accept the new reality and to change a thing called mentality. This is something what one gets during his bring up at school or at home. This cannot be changed by law but only by reformed education and judical system, where everyone will know for sure what penalty will strike him if he will sail into the water of curruption. Neither current education nor judical system in Slovenia are something we can really be proud of. This present government tried to reform both but you can see what is happening… We will get another referendum thanks to the opposition and state council… Another fine way of wasting taxpayers money.
5. It may be sixteen years since communism collapsed in Slovenia (though unofficially our dear first president and former chairman of the Central Committe of the Communist Party of Slovenia did not leave the political scene until 2002/03) but the mentality of communism will something what will remain with us for a very long time like it did in all countries whose former regimes were not democratic but totalitarian. I would not underestimate this affect, particularly since some were quite openly implying that the state of economy in Yugoslavia was better than under Jansa’s government.
6. Jansa, an old communist… Yes, that’s another brilliant argument that some people tend to bring out today. But allow me to ask you a counter-question on this subject: To which other (!!) political party before 1990 could a young man like Janez Jansa or anyone else who was interested in the politics join to? Perhaps you can enlighten us and tell us something what else don’t know…
Technically speaking every citizen of SRS was a communist. I for example was enrolled into the communist youth organization at elementary school (pionirji), where nobody asked me if I wanted to join or not. It was compulsory. At the end of high school I joined the communist youth. I was young and naive and actually that foolish enough to think that I can make a difference… I did not. We had some party meetings, where we mostly smoke, played cards and drank. I resigned after two years. Jansa, from what I know, got kicked out very soon as well.
7. And finally please don’t patronize (with) me. One could easily “accuse” you to plagiate your ideas from the “Mladina” or the new (?) political program of the Social-Democrats, where they are lately also very eagerly trying to persuade us that our standard of living is as bad as that one in Ivory Coast.
Anja:
1. Insults & why oh why does that sound so similar to our current government…
Ah, ah, ah… As I said to Cornelius a couple of minutes ago: you will simply have to accept that fact that some things as complex as corruption and clientelism cannot be solve on the same utopic and catastropic way like our communist partisans practised in 1945, when they ruined the industry and liquidated (or jailed fi they were lucky) a couple of thousand people just to make a new classles society. If you think that you have the magic formula which will get rid of Slovenia of corruption and clientelism in less than three years than I beg you to run the next election and I promise you to give a vote for you and run throughout Slovenia like a madman to persuade other to vote for you. Or even better… Why not explaining to us here how you would tackle the problem of corruption, clientelism and protectionism? Seems people like we are accused to talk along the party line and you not I assume you have a plan how to get rid of it. I only hope it does not include the re-election of Mr. Gregor Golobic and his close band of merry supporters.
2. …any of it as far as what they are about, so no point in me arguing with you about it.
That’s the easiest to say, eh? Whenever you are in doubt always make your opponent to look like an ignorant fool who doesn’t know anything and particularly not about Comrade Marx. Nice. Real nice.
3. … you’d know that what JJ is doing, it taken from their textbook.
Perhaps you would care to give a few examples to us, simple and common ignorant idiots?
4… around him aren’t as smart as those in YU were.
Whose people around him in YU?
5. ….indicators based on economics, education and innovations…
But I am Anja -> www.stat.si/ -> and the numbers look very good. I have a brother who has a small import and export company and he says that life for small business has significantly improved since Janez Jansa came to power. Work is up and so are the profits. The only problem seem to me still rigid bureacracy in some areas and finding good and smart workers in Slovenia. Perhaps this is why 40% of his labour are coming from Poland, Slovakia, Bulgaria and Croatia.
6. … what you’ll see is Slovenia slipping majorly on them … We’re hardly the ex communist miracle anymore…
You see… This is a difference between you (and others) and me. I don’t want a miracle. I didn’t want a communist nor I don’t want to be an ex-communist miracle. I simply want for my country to be a normal country just like Denmark, Finland, Sweden or if you like like New Zealand. With their good and bad things.
As for education: The current government proposed that state and private schools get equal level of funding, yet the opposition rejects this. We will hardly have another referendum on this. Why?
There is more and more money for education every year, but in Slovenia we have two problems:
One is that we are very impatient. We cannot hurl 50% of state budget just for education. What about our road or railway infrastructure which is completely obsolete and will require millions of EUROs for renovation? What about new schools and sports infrastructure both in poor shape? What about hospitals and medical equipment which could also use a good paint job and new medical equipment… And there is - I think we all agree on this - no progress or no economy boom without modern road or railway system. I don’t know how people call this in Slovenia but elsewhere it is called “modernisation”. It takes time, a helluva lot of patience and above all it cost a shit load of money.
Now I ask myself and you: Why did the communists or later the Liberals not do anything on this field while they were on power? Except for a few kms of motorways they really haven’t done anything impressing or worthwhile to mention, except bagging us with more paperwork and bureacracy. It took their Minister of Health five years to bicker around those operation tables and he still wasn’t able to carry out the purchase by the end of his mandate.
But since 2004 I see progress. Not in Ljubljana perhaps where local politics play its own violin, but elsewhere in Slovenia I can see changes: Celje, Maribor, Koper, Nova Gorica, Bovec, Novo mesto… and they are not for the bad.
Pengovsky:
1. There are almost as many nonsences in your replies as there are sentences.
Then counter-argument them. If there are as plenty nonsenses in them as you say they are than I am sure you will have no troubles to pick them out. Please.
2. You mentioned Zoran Janković: Had Janša not removed him as CEO of Mercator, Janković would have not ran for mayor of Ljubljana, had not been elected and Janša would not have a major political problem on his hands.
Sorry but this part I really don’t get it. Why should a voter from Celje, Koper or Novo mesto give a shit (pardon my French) for Jankovic being removed as the CEO of the Mercator? Technically he was removed by the new owners - Lasko and Istrabenz - to whom the government sold their share and who were probably as eager to see Jankovic to go as Jansa did).
Jankovic came the same way he arrived, if we are to judge from that famous TV conversation between Rop and Jankovic.
Why should a voter from Styria or Bela krjaina be concerned about this is beyond my imagination.
In fact I am even puzzled why a voter from Ljubljana would be angry at Jansa for doing this?! Ljubljana got by this Jansa’s “bad political decision” a new mayor who many of you seem to think that it is very competent. Since NOTHING was done in Ljubljana in the past 10 years under Potocnik and Simsic I - if I would be a Ljubljaner but I am not - would be happy to get such a man for a mayor to finally see some progress my city. Unfortunately from what I can see it seems I was right in judging Jankovic to be nothing more than a common hochstapler. Every time I see him on TV or newspaper he seems to be complaining about his “lost” 60 million € he lost but nothing is said what he is going to do with the rest of his 250 million € strong budget of the City of Ljubljana. Instead he talk and talk, but very little is done. Katanec is definately not going to kick a ball from the new stadium in 2008 as he promised. Yet nobody seem to be concern about this broken promise. Why?
Nevertheless I hope that eventually he will get the grisp of it (work that is) and show some results and justify his reputation for being allegedly the best manager in Slovenia of the last 15 years.
As for the Mercator is concerned the company hasn’t sunk under the new leadership as some predicted. It is equally if not more successfull (at least financially speaking) than they were under Jankovic. So what’s the problem?
Nobody got that concerned when SIB Bank was demolished, yet you are so concerned about a wealthy man who has more money than we will ever have together. I simply cannot understand this. That’s bizarre.
3. But forget Janković, take Mitja Gaspari for example: had Janša left him in charge of the National Bank…
Again, why are you telling me this? Did you vote for Peterle? Are you a supporter of Peterle? I didn’t vote for any of them. You are talking here like Gaspari after the end of his mandate was replaced by a new governor who is a complete idiot. But he is not. He got a competent replacement (Kranjec). So I really don’t see what is the problem. Every political party has the right to appoint a new man after the end of his mandate, doesn’t it?
4. And another thing - being in power is about political trophies…
Really? I have to say that I have never judged politics through political trophies but by improving the standard of living for its citizens.
5. Janša doesn’t have a single thing to show for … which is heavily shadowed by inflation.
We had high inflation in the past as well under Drnovsek and Rop’s governments but it didn’t bother the voters to vote him to the office three times? So what’s the difference this time?
6. Slovene voters vote for Slovene politicians…
Do Slovene voters (all 1.5 million of them) know what is inflation?
7. like JJ you too seem to be insulted at the slap this government has received….
Heheh… I know that this might come as a shock to some but I am not that easily insulted especially not when two old farty politicians are in question.
I simply think (like Michael in his original article) that Jansa’s government is getting some harsh critics for its work and what is probably even more important I hate when some people and some institutions (even universities) start to manipulate with people, our past which is no relevant in this context and outside image of Slovenia. Like for example those 500 journalists did. That’s for me cheap populism worthy of Berlusconi and Haider. I can really understand them that it is not easy for them to work under such intense pressure and I hope that Jansa’s government will resign and Pahor form a new coalition government of left-wing parties. If you have no support of the people anymore it is fruitless to continue, n’est-ce pas?
I only wish that our past left-wing governments would be subjected to such brutal criticism. Perhaps then we would not have that much corruption, clientelism and protectionism and jansa would have easier work on this area.
8. I heavily suspect that if Peterle…
Sorry. I did not know that this comment section is reserved only for a few “Chosen Ones”. I thought that every citizen of this world has the right to comment Michael’s article and other people’s comments, regardless whether he agree or disagree with them.
If you are bothered by that than my fellow countryman you have a serious problem.
Karel: re no2: In that case I apologise, I misinterpreted what you were saying. And yes, I do take out my garbage.
re no3: Jansa is, after all, a politician, so why is it wrong to explore the political ramifications of his statement?
re no4: oh, but I don’t remember Jansa saying anything about this before the election that got him into office. and he’s not a political greenhorn, either. he must have known it would take more time. and he also knew that people would not elect him, if he told them it’d take a decade or two to turn things for the better. so (I suppose) he kept conviniently quiet about the estimated time it would take, and a lot of people came off with the impression that the changes would be lightning fast. which they weren’t, and which is why some of his voters resent him now.
re no6: excellent, so we agree. what other party could a politician have enlisted in than the communist party? one could show some cojones like Pučnik did and be opressed at every step, or one could go to the communist party. so, a person being an ex-communist does not automaticaly disqualify them as politicians. that’s all I was trying to say.
When SIB banka was bought, sold and then again bought, it was too a purely Ljubljana related matter, but it had a state-wide effect and was one of the last nails in the coffin of LDS.
The same goes for Janković’s removal. Like it or not it echoed state-wide. And it was one of the reasons Zoki was elected in Ljubljana. I’m sure that if he ran for mayor of Spodnji Duplek, he’d have won.
I’m not defending Zoki. He’s so good at his own PR that he doesn’t need me or anyone else for that matter. I’m only saying that Janša made an enemy whom he didn’t need. And Janković is giving him a beating for the last six months. That is a fact.
Gaspari: You’re not listening. As the Governor, Gaspari was as apolitical as a block of wood. Again, Janša made a political enemy who ran for office for the same reason Zoki did - out of revenge. And made enough damage for Janša to really feel it.
Political trophies: Making life better is also a political trophy. Implementing reforms would have been a trophy. Implementation of the euro was a trophy (shared by previous governments)
Inflation: the difference is, that inflation was on a downward trend, whereas now it is on the upward trend. That is the main and crucial difference.
As for the media, I (perhaps suprisingly) agree that a lot was left to be desired in the past. There was, however, a notable lack of direct pressure from the government. Agreed, that was a lot of informal pressure, but after Janša & Co. changed the law on RTVSLO (true, confirmed on a referendum), things took a turn the worse.
Commenting: again - you’re not listening. I have no right, inclination or wish to infinge freedom of speech. What I said was, that I strongly suspect that you’re going to all this trouble of commenting simply because the government got a slap on the wrist. Had Peterle won, I have a feeling that I and others like me would be waved away as leftist lunatics. But as things stand now we practically stand accused of high treason. At least that’s feeling I get.
Karel:
re no3: Of course you can do that but same can say and do Jansa to those statements of his political opponents who say that Slovenia lives in deep poverty.
re no4: Jansa used the word combat the corruption (boj proti korupciji). He did not say he will exterminate, destroy or annihilate the corruption but to fight against it. You can check old 2004 election brochures.
…and he also knew that people would not elect him, if he told them it’d take a decade or two to turn things for the better…..
Ah, the Slovenian socialist *mentality*…
re no6: But Jansa did show cojones. Like Joze Pucnik he was arrested, jailed and trailed in late 1980s.
I am not saying that one has to disqualify every ex-communist in this country. What I am saying is that there is a difference betweene those who were at the bottom and those who were at the top and making the decisions - like for instance our former president Milan Kucan who was nominally the Head of the SDV (Sluzba Drzavne Varnosti). Would you thrust your future in the hands of man who systematically violated the basic human rights for almost two decades?
Pengovsky:
1. SIB Banka: It was indeed one of the last nails in the coffin of LDS, but suprisingly it was not the last in the coffin of equally compromised SD from which most of the major actors came from (couple Klemencic, Tekavcic…). Too add worse the new mayor Danica Simsic came from their ranks!
I think that was a true indication to the rest of Slovenia how the City of Ljubljana is working with its money. A little bit on table and a lot under the table.
2. Jankovic’s removal: I can’t remember that it would echoed state-wide. It did however echoed among the medias who painted him for years as one of the most capable managers in Slovenia. I doubt that Zoki would get that easily elected in places like Celje, Bovec, Novo mesto etc. We are not that reluctant to vote “foreign outsiders” to run our home affairs without even living or knowing them.
3. Making enemy: It is a bit naive to claim that Jankovic’s removal made him a new Jansa’s enemy. The question why I think this is simple: Unlike Jankovic and Kucan Jankovic and Jansa were never good friends. In fact, they were not even friends. Jankovic knew that he will most probably have to go if the political option which put him on Mercator will have to leave the power. This is why he was so brilliantly shining when sitting next to his great idol Kucan during the opening of Forum 21 before (!!) the elections in 2004.
I don’t even see Jankovic beating the government and Jansa. he is vrying most of them time about the missing money while at the same time don’t knw to invest wisely the rest of Ljubljana’s annual budget of 250 million €. That’s understandable. He is used to work with politics to cover, giving him money and cleaning his collateral mistakes. But that’s not a manager. That’s more an aparatchik.
Speaking of which how many things out of his pompous program of 22 projects did he already furfill? 1? 2? 3? 5? Or rather 0?
Every time when I visit Ljubljana it is still that old dirty, grey town just as it was in 1970s and 1980s. Not to mention the centre. Yet people seem to like this.
I have no problems with that as long as taxpayer money does not go for his futile ideas. We have in Styria many cities where mayors are much more flexible and have much better working habits. Perhaps this is why Celje has a new handball arean and football stadium, while Ljubljana only has a new bowling arena.
4. Gaspari: Gaspari an apolitical person? Please, do not insult my intelligence! Please, don’t insult our intelligence for God sake! Someone who was born as a son of two very influential Communist Party functionaries (his mother even being in the Central Committee of the KPS in 1980s) they made sure that unlike many other kids from the countryside he received everything what was needed for him to enjoy and live a comfortable life. In my eyes he is just like George W. Bush where “mommy” and “daddy” carved the path to him and made sure that nothing did fell from the table for the rest of us. I believe this is what one could call protectionism and clientelism, don’t you agree?
Gaspari is a small calibre enemy for Jansa. The left in Slovenia has only one major playor who is running the show. The last elections have clearly shown that he still hasn’t lost all the aurels of power. The presidential candidates were walking to him like they were on the pillgramage to a Messiah looking for his blessing.
And that about Bishop Rozman and Krek was a masterpiece worthy of the AVNOJ decrees from 2000/2001. I wonder what we will get next year, though. Maybe something Leon Rupnik? Probably something about the Catholic Church. That always works…
5. I thought that making life better is a commodity today.
Reforms are implemented. It is just that reforms cannot be implemented over the night. It is also that reforms (at least in Slovenia that is) cannot be implemented without agreement with labour unions and in some cases even with the opposition. Basically we are like Poland under Kaczynski brothers. While other new EU members were flexible during the negotiations the EU had to negotiate with Poles about every single potato.
6. Implementation of the euro was a trophy (shared by previous governments)
Heheh… Well, to be quite honest, so was the high inflation shared by previous governments.
7. Inflationdirect and informal pressure from the government.
Where? Perhaps you would like to share some examples of this pressure with us.
I did not notice any of this pressure. The journalists in Slovenia are still doing the same as they were before, i.e. talking nonsense. Half of them can’t even speak grammatical Slovene.
9. …things took a turn the worse…
Again where? What is worse on TV SLO what was already not worse before?
10. Commenting:
I suppose I could say the same for you: still have not go over the defeat from 2004, eh?
It is not a trouble for me at all. It seems however that it represents a certain trouble to you since you cannot really argument your comments.
Strange as it my seem I have no interest in Alojz Peterle. Did not even go to vote!
Karel: please, do read things in full. Had you done that you’d have seen that my arguments are quite solid.
1. SIB Banka: It was actually an indication of LDS (and LDS and SD coalition in Ljubljana) growing increasingly arrogant and being consequently removed from power
2. Janković’s removal: You’ve got a short memory, then… One of the most used arguments against him was that he’s a corrupt manager and a non-Slovene at that… And yet he got 63 percent of the vote… Again - I’m not supporting him, I’m only repeating the facts which you seem to forget conveniently.
3. Making an enemy: Do, please put two and two together. Janković entered politics because he was removed from Mercator. And now he’s giving him a beating, not in the least by winning a legal battle at the constitutional court.
4. Gaspari: Again - do read in full and in the proper direction… I said that Gaspari as the governor was apolitical. Not before, and certainly not after. And the fact that he got almost 25% of the vote hardly makes him small potatoes.
5. Making life better: So which is it now? Are reforms implemented or not? Make up your mind?
6. Inflation: As I said - inflation under previous government was on a downward trend, whereas now it is rising. That’s the whole difference.
7. Formal vs. Informal pressure: I take it you don’t work in the media, then? These things are a bit like sex, you know… They lose a lot in translation
8. RTVSLO: It went from bad to worse, but what was promises was a shift from bad to better. And as you so aptly noted, nothing is better. Journalistic pieces seldomly fulfill even the most basic professional criteria, TVSLO took sides where it should have remained neutral, and I get to see Jože Možina’s bone-digging adventures more often than I got to see old partisan movies under LDS. Not to mention the mishaps called Na zdravje and Piramida.
10. Commenting: You didn’t vote? Shame on you!
1. SIB Banka:
Punished and removed from power? How can you say this when the same people who cooked up the SIB Bank are still sitting in the city council - Danica Simsic, Metka Tekavcic and Milos Pavlica - and being in coalition with Jankovic. I don’t interpret this as being removed from power and definately not punished. Viktorija Potocnik took much of the blame on her back, while the brains of the project quietly got through. Again.
2. Janković’s removal: I don’t care if he is non-Slovene (so is Franjo Bobinac, at least by birth) even if sometimes it appears that he is more proud to be a Serb than Slovene. I have no problems with this. It is your problem, if you choose to activate it. My main argument against him is the way how he obtained his enourmous wealth. From an unknown, obscure businessman in early 1990s to one of the most rich persons in Slovenia in 2004 in just a couple of years. I believe most of us know how things were being done in major state-owned (protectionism) companies by some of the managers in turmoil 1990s. Perhaps there are still some suckers in this country who perhaps truly believe that he got his money on an honest way, but I don’t. That money he got was the money he squezzed from the company (Mercator) for himself and a little bit for his sons (clientelism), while his salesgirls and saleboys had to content themselves with meagre salaries. For me that’s not a sucessfull businessman but a school example of one of many tycoons from former communists countries who got rich over the night for being licked with the governing political parties or wing.
He indeed got 63% of votes with 58% of voters apeparing on the voting day. I leave the rest to others to conclude.
3. Making an enemy: Wrong. Jankovic entered the politics the day the government named him to be their soldier no. 1 on the Mercator. The state owned the largest share in the Mercator and it was their choice. he entired the state policy on that day he joined the Forum 21 which was formed to discuss about social and political problems in Slovenia - so said Kucan. So we have here a huge paradox: a forum consisting of the most wealthiest Slovenes is discussing what to do to help the poor and underpaid workers in Slovenia. It’s like watching the Potemkin’s Village.
Jankovic hasn’t won anything yet. he hasn’t got the money yet and probably won’t. If I would be in his shoes I would stop whining and rather do something useful with the rest of 250 million and probably not squandared them for any loans to Mr. Jelenic or Mr. Kirn or for any new commercial bank.
4. Gaspari - apolitical:
Still doesn’t change anything. Every governot of the centrale bank has to be neutral and apolitical. His loyalty lies with the state finances and not government.
Gaspari got his share of votes mostly because some medias made him the biggest martyr and victim of opression since Joanne d’Arc. Our “independent” medias are very good at this. making the public feel like someone is irreplacable.
As for the votes perhaps that was Jansa’s original master plan to get rid of Peterle with whom they are not great friends either.
5. Making life better:
The answer is simple: some reforms have been implemented and some not. definately the most important reforms were done on the area of small business (artisans). It is today much easier to create and run a company with employees than it was before 2004, when they had to battle for days with the wheels of bureacracy. Elsewhere reforms failed (like health sector, which would in my opinion require something more than just reforms) and somewhere else reforms are desperately being blocked by the opposition graciously supported by the labour union(s). I am talking here particularly about the school sector.
6. Inflation: Inflation usually go up and down, you know… That’s something what is normal in economy. Right now it is going up. Most countries who adopted EU faced with this problem. Jansa’s government is no exception here. I have just the Bilten of the Bank of Slovenia No.4 for 2007 and found the level of inflation in Slovenia since 1994. Here are the numbers:
1994: 19.8%
1995: 12.6%
1996: 9.7%
1997: 9.1%
1998: 7.9%
1999: 6.1%
2000: 8.9%
2001: 8.4%
2002: 7.5%
2003: 5.6%
2004: 3.2%
In 1999-2000, when the inflation jumped from 6.1% to 8.9% it was Drnovsek’s liberal government on power, but this did not prevent Drnovsek and LDS being awarded a new mandate by the voters with the overwhelming majority.
Salaries in 1999 were also crappy and prices are juicy. Yet somehow we survived.
7. Formal vs. Informal pressure:
I don’t know a country on this world where journalists would not be subjected to formal or informal pressure. Not just from the politicians but also from the business lobbies like for instance Mercator. These pressures will always remain here and it is up on the journalists to fight them and keep their morale integrity. It is same as in school where some (over)ambitious parents are more than eager to threat the teachers to give their often spoiled kids a better grade although he clearly doesn’t deserve it. If you are a wanker you will give up, but if you are not you will say what needed to be say, i.e. rather put your lazy kid behind the desk to spend more time learning than playing computer games.
However, I am not even that much bothered by these political and other pressures on the medias. What I am mostly concerned is the level of professionalism. I think I don’t need to tell you about the famous morning talk-shows of Mrs. Lada Zei in 2000. To some they were very funny. To me were not. I lost on that year all faith in the independent professionalis of Slovene journalism. That what Zei was doing was not profesionalism. It was not even journalism or propaganda. It was pure hate agitation similar to the one I could hear a couple of years before from the RTLM in Rwanda.
8. RTVSLO: I don’t think it is Jansa’s fault if journalistic pieces seldomly fulfill even the most basic professional criteria. I believe you should address this complain to the FDV where they seem to be more concerned about what the Catholic Church is doing than giving the students some useful lessons how to write a proper article if possible in proper Slovene - not like Uros Slak’s “bom biu, b’ biu” and similar vomits.
Those bones which you are talking about are human remains. They are persons with name, history and family. There are children and women among them. For 65 years we had to be silent about that, so I think the last what we can do is to show some respect and learn something about the piece of history which was taken from us and kept in dark. Bone-digging is a very cynical statement. I would also prefer to see the culprits who did these crimes to be standing in a courtroom than looking at those mass graves, but unfortunately our justice system is what it is.
As for Na Zdravje and Piramida I cannot comment. I never watched them and probably never will even if I would have the time and pleasure.
10. Commenting: When none of the candidates is worthy of your efforts it is best to stay home and take a good book in your hands, n’est-ce pas?
Just finished writing my law essay on Slov’s accession to the EU (my background is slov) and I find you’ve elected a new president! Congratulations to the people of slovenia to show the pollies you can at times see through their spin.
The election of this non-aligned centre-left professor underscores the points I made in my essay. Folks - you were always going to make it into the EU. You worked hard and you got there. How legitimate would the EU have looked if it didn’t allow the CEE contries in?? They did a good con job on you - your pollies - just as they do here (sydney). We are also getting rid of a ’successful’ conservative government (11 years) this Sat as well - voting in the centre -left.
You can only fool some of the people some of the time.
yes slovenia may look prosperous (like we do) however what about all the personal debt??
Just read how the EU is particularly worried about your ageing problem ( ie cut back on pensions - which is what your polticians obediently did).
I think for any country to get into the EU is very brave - it would never work here - we can’t even ratify a Protocol that doesnt work!
PS looks like our new Environment Minister will be a former well known rock star!