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Austro-Hungarian soldiers in the Alps during World War I. [source]
Foreign media stories about Slovenia usually involve explaining what a cute and quaint country this is and how Ljubljana is like a mini-Prague. But things have been a bit macabre lately:
• Life and death on Slovenia’s forgotten front in the Telegraph is about the 90th anniversary of the Battles of the Isonzo/Soča,
• Slovenia digs up proof of slaughter is a long story about the unearthing of people massacred after the Second World War.
Despite the grim reading, it’s nice to see some stories with actual substance coming from abroad…
(Thanks Les!)
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The article is written by Marja Novak - a Slovenian working for Reuters as a correspondent from Slovenia.
Same case with articles on Slovenia by Associated Preess - they are usually written by their SLO contracted correspondent: Ali H. Zerdin (Dnevnik).
So, all those “stories from abroad” are actually an inside job.
The fact that it is an “inside job” means that the whole thing was even harder to write. I can tell you from personal experience, that writing for foreign audience can be a demamding task, because they are not privy to knowledge we (Slovenians) take as a given. So it means that an author must do a lot of explaining as the article progresses, but still keep the flow of the article intact.
To give you an example: In Slovenia everyone knows what “post-WWII events mean”, but a foreign reader probably doesn’t. Which means that a Slovene journalist must be vary of this contextual trap, but -on the other hand - musn’t start explainig the post-war murders from A to Z, because most of this bears no relevance for a foreign reader.
And then often Slovene readers of articles for foreign public go apeshit over factual approximations which are totally uacceptable in non-tolerant Slovene atmosphere of public depate, whereas the intedned public usually only remembers that “something bad happened - just like in the rest of post-war Europe”.
So hats off to both Marja and Ali, because both can write interesting pieces for both Slovene and foreign public.
I’m relieved that this post didn’t cause the familiar “debate” between the reds and the blacks like it usually does on other blogs, forums etc. Carniola seems to have civilized readers/commentators. I’m glad I’m in good company.
Great article, I saw it in NYT - www.nytimes.com/reuters/world/lifestyle-warcrimes-slovenia.html?ex=1193716800&en=6dd07ea661012e2c&ei=5070&emc=eta1
(they’ve got this awful long URLs, sorry)
A variation on the article (with a bit more spin) can be seen at Spiegel’s site: www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,501058,00.html (in English).
Found through Free Republic: www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1884392/posts (even more spin in the comments there
)
Igre, the day is still long, so I think your relief came too soon.
I’m definitely on the side of the reds, and I think the problem of the blacks is, that they cannot admit, to themselves and the others, that they did a mistake by serving the aggressor, fight with him against their own people.
So, instead of admiting their error and go on with their lives, they try to ease this pain by demonizing the partisans.
And I’m sure anyone who actually had a chance to listen to Joze Dezman more then 5 min, wouldn’t ever take him seriously.
Was that uncivilesed enough for you, Igre, coz if it was not, I can do better
To Aja: Yes, if only the “reds” priority would have been the fight for freedom and not bolshevik revolution than maybe the “reds” would not have actually killed more Slovenes in the Provinzia di Lubiana than Italians and Germans together.
Well Aja, I had grandparents on both sides and know both sides of the story. It was a gray gray affair. From start to finish. My partisan grandfather was one of the first partisans to join, but after the war he never joined the party and is still bitter about what he saw partisans do. My other (late) grandfather was with the domobranci. He was also bitter about the whole thing. Now it’s easy for us to judge who was on the right side or not. But in the middle of the war, when things are difficult… I don’t know. War is ugly. And in the end whoever retains some measure of decency and civility is the real winner. Unfortunately neither party did this in our case. Both were torturing and killing innocent people. And there’s just no justification for it. On both sides.
Karel: admirable selfpwn. respect.
To Aja: Yes, if only the “reds” priority would have been the fight for freedom and not bolshevik revolution than maybe the “reds” would not have actually killed more Slovenes in the Provinzia di Lubiana than Italians and Germans together.
That’s a fact that many ignorant left wing liberals tend to conveniently ignore!
The fact remains that despite how many atrocities were committed by the ‘evil’ Germany and the Axis forces, the Allied Forces Committed many many more!
Igre, yes, war is ugly, and indeed it is very difficult if not impossible to retain some measure of decency and civility if you’re involved in it. I like this second comment, the reason I reacted in a bit crazy way to the first one, is that it sounded (to me)a little like you’re judging ppl who have oppinions that differ from the ones of the majority.
Of course I knew what you ment, but I will always be on the side of the minority, always.
I said I liked the comment, Igre, and I do, but still at the end you’re making the partisans and domobranci equal. Yes, both sides were guilty of wrongdoings, and I know that it was difficult to decide in the chaotic war time, but still, I prefer to be on the saide (as it was the majority of slovene intellectuals) of ppl who joined partisans, and wanted to make their country free (and certainly weren’t thinking about any bolshevic revolution) then the ones who made their pledge to Hitler.
And I totaly understand you, Wolf, yes, indeed, poor “evil” Germany, they so wanted peace and prosperity for everyone, and were so misunderstood.
Aja: Igre was simply being a human being, able to see across the day-to-day political agenda into the misery of the grisly events during the war and after it, and I personaly respect him deeply for that. I wish more people like that existed in this country. More people with genuine caritas, with respect for the human lives extinguished on both sides, disgusted with the bone-counting some of the posters here do. Wishful thinking…
disgusted with the bone-counting some of the posters here do. Wishful thinking…
I’m disgusted that you feel sympathy for those bastards!
But then again what can you expect from someone that probably has a picture of Stalin and Tito in their house.
And I totaly understand you, Wolf, yes, indeed, poor “evil” Germany, they so wanted peace and prosperity for everyone, and were so misunderstood.
No, they wanted what every other nation wants, power and control, just like the Americans, the French, the british, the spanish, and the chinese today,
and the fact remains, if Germany had not attacked the Russians in a pre-emptive strike, the entire continent of Europe would be speaking Russian today. But a true ‘comrade’ like you wouldnt mind would you? I think you two would both join the communist party if it was still in Slovenia. Nobody from my family ever did, and I am proud of that.
Killing is wrong, kapital punishment, bombing of Dresden in the WW II, nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it was all wrong, as well as german invasions.
I’m not saying “the good guys” can kill as many as they please and the bed guys can not and if they do then they’re evil.
C’mon Wolf I’ll admitt I’m a little brainwashed against the blacks if you admit thet you’re too against communists
Blacks beeing of course domobranci & co. from Igre’s phrase: the reds and the blacks
Yes, I will admit I am against communism, I have seen how it enslaved half of a continent for an entire generation.
I become so sad when I see that Aja still today talks about being for the reds or against the blacks. Young people of today should have understood, from the more distant perspective they’ve (we’ve) got, what impossible situation Slovenians had when being torn apart by different ockupators, ideologies and intrigues - the majority thinking they did the best for their homerland. There really was no true alternative for those who loved their homeland - something the story of Igre’s family also indicates. My own relatives all faught against nazism, a couple of them even died in Auschwitz (also my great grandmother), but I can understand the special situation of Slovenians at that time. The splitting up of the nation then, and today if it continues, serves all but the Slovenians themselves. So please, get wiser!
If Germany had won the war, Europe would be a much better place today. Thats the cold hard truth, like it or not.
Sorry, but there are liberals and conservatives, in Slovenija in other countries, all over the world.
Of course there are also a lot of ppl who don’t give a rat’s ass about politics.
Ppl have different opinions about life universe and everything, even politics.
Splitting up the nation?, I’m more for letting them think things over with their own heads rather then with somebody else’s.
So, please Vicki find some other (just) cause to cry over.
Aja,of course people have different ideologies and opinions, but in a democracy you don´t kill each other for that. And I think that it’s strange if you today approve of killing anyone in the past who had a different ideology. I’s also very destructive to continue the conflict from then today and go on barking. It was a sad period of the nations history as there also were others before.
During the war THE MAJORITY of Slovenians probably would fight side by side for their homeland, if there was a true alternative.
Maybee you should read Karel Destovnik-Kajuh’s “Slovenska pesem”.
Danzig, remind this and repeat your sentence if you can…
I said I approve of killing anyone in the past who had a different ideology?
I don’t think so.
As long as there are claims that domobranci were “good guys” and did well to kill partisans side by side with german soldiers I’ll be (very loudly) against it.
@aja: While I sympathize with your line of reasoning, there really is no need to go all rabid over it.
History is and will always be re-examined and reinterpreted. I don’t think anyone in Slovenia disagrees with the notion that the Partisan movement liberated Slovenia from the German, Italian and Hungarian occupation.
People, however, tend to look differently at causes and effects for a) collaboration of domobranci and bela garda with the occupator and b) domination of Communist Party within the Partisan movement.
And although no war is just, WWII in Slovenia did not give the luxury of not picking sides - because it was an out-out option. And while igre says that it was gray-gray instead of black-white this only goes as far as to say that both sides killed in the name of their cause.
But point is that Partisans fought for liberation whereas the other side fought for continuation of occupation.
That said, however, people who say that there is more to this than meets the eye are usually correct. Not everything was neat and clean on the Partisan side, even though they fought for the right thing.
But most of all I think it’s time we finally bury our dead. For all our sakes.
I know, I agree with you, it’s just that the blacks won’t even admit, that they made a pledge to Hitler, they want to come out clean and smelling of roses
and the reasoning like, we had no choice but to fight with the germans, because of the partisans violence, or something, realy makes me mad. (rabid even?)
Yes, I also agree we should change the subject, so what was that interesting movie you were talking about…
Errrr… this one?