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This video of Beryl on Ubuntu tempted me to join the dark side.
There’s been a lot of hype recently surrounding Ubuntu (”Linux for humans”) so last week I decided to give it a try. I’ve been using XP for a few years now without any troubles, but I noticed that I’ve been naturally gravitating towards open-source programs, like Firefox, Thunderbird, VLC, and many more… Switching the OS seemed like a natural next step.
That was my first mistake. I assumed that Ubuntu would be like, say, Firefox. That it would somehow be more efficient, faster and easier to use. Unfortunately, it is not. My second mistake was thinking that my long years with XP (and before that my years with a Mac, an Amiga, and even an Atari 800) would somehow be of some use to me. Unfortunately, they were not. My third mistake was in thinking that I could fight my way up the steep learning curve and come out on the other side triumphant. Unfortunately, I could not. After a week of slogging through every kind of tedious problem, I gave up and went back to XP.
I didn’t want to. I was even ready to make some sacrifices. For example, the impetus for my switch was seeing the beryl video above — but my graphic card was listed as being unsupported. I decided to keep on trucking anyway. (As a sidenote: the installation instructions for beryl are a prime example of what’s wrong with Linux. If you use Windows, then you probably know that installing a program means double-clicking on a file, clicking “next” a few times, choosing where to save it, and maybe deciding what parts you want installed. Now go check the instructions for installing Beryl. Keep in mind that that’s page one of three.
I know that Linux is touted as giving you greater control and everything, but to me it’s like someone wanting to drive one of those old cars with hand cranks because you get better “ignition control.”
In the meantime, my problems continued: Firefox looked uglier and lagged when dealing with flash files; audio sometimes crackled and sometimes didn’t; some programs weren’t showing up in the menus as they should; turning on desktop effects turned the screen entirely white; and online help guides were a giant convoluted mess — you would find solutions applicable to previous versions of Ubuntu, or text that read like it had been wrung through babelfish a few times. When Firefox inexplicably crashed on me, I knew it was over.
Ubuntu hit me with one final parting shot — the damnable Grub Error 17 — but, like this gentleman, I’m now happily back with XP.
It wasn’t a total loss. For one, I learned that Linux is not quite for humans. And for another: It was a worthwhile experience for its own sake. If anyone’s interested, this page has tips on how to make Windows more Linux-like, including improvements like adding multiple workspaces and the free ObjectDock.
If you want to give Ubuntu a try, you can download it for free here. I would recommend doing a dual boot, in which case I found this tutorial to be the best by far.
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my thoughts exactly…
well, i switched to linux (ubuntu) a few months ago but still decided to leave windows installed - ‘just to be on the safe side’. I haven’t had to boot into windows ever since - i haven’t had any problems at all. you know, it’s just your relationship with your computer… you have to talk to it sometimes, be there for it when it’s lonely…:P
XP is by far the best, robust and stable OS Micro$oft has ever produced… OK, they’re overdoing it with security patches, but I quite like it… Easy to maintain and also easy to tweak.
Well, just a pair of comments.
Beryl is complicated to install because it’s experimental, and because of ATI’s crappy driver support (which is not only crappy for Linux).
For what I see, you tried using the free driver.Writing this driver, to make a comparison is like trying to build a nuclear power plant just by looking at a photo. Without info on the specs is a hard work.
Apart, while there’s a free driver for new cards, ATI has somehow not allowed it to see the light. Company secrets, intellectual property and all that stuff.
Your card would be supported with the non-free driver, aka fglrx, which in ubuntu 7.04 is installed by two clicks, as well as most programs. Just, ATI guys don’t want to move their asses to add a small feature for easy beryl. Then beryl would really be (click beryl, click emerald, click apply, installed). Look at intel. They got out decent drivers and so beryl works out of the box.
Second… for sure first time you got windows you got lost ? Because I spent 2 years with my graphic card in 16 colors w/o knowing why
But yep, as for now, it’s a good option to keep dual-boot. Maja, thought, is happy with her Kubuntu alone. (with beryl, on a cranky old Radeon 9k/Duron 1Ghz) and except for a particular music program, has no need to go back to Windows. She even begged me to delete Outlook from the Windows partition and put Thunderbird. Me, I still have Windows on a virtual machine, and curiously yesterday I spent 5 hours cleaning it from a nice virus attempt I got from doing nothing
ActiveX miracles.
Wait a bit and give it another try later on. Help offered, as always.
I was a lucky user of both Linux and Windows for years (dual boot), but somehow all I ever did in (well-functioning) Linux was playing card games, while I still used and needed Windows for work and everything else. My husband installed Linux several times and the first few times were as complicated as you are describing. Later, it went faster. Still, I have to agree with Pengovsky: XP is great.
Glad you tried it before I did. I was very close to it, but plan to eventually get a new PC (in 5 years, because the one right now has been doing everything I need for the last 2,5 years) and try Linux on the old one.
Experimentation is always worth doing for its own sake, but I’m sorry to hear that it didn’t go well for you. I had a similar experience with SuSe Linux a few years ago and as you say I found the learning curve to be too steep and my laziness too deep. I heard that Ubuntu was ready for prime time, but if you can’t put up with it, I guess we’ll have to wait a while longer. Thanks for saving me the trouble of installing it ‘just to see’*.
*Which my wife knows really means ‘just to stay up all night cursing with rage’
A. Medved: I guess I’ll never forget the moment I realised my husband IS able to react violently: after a few Linux-installation-nights he lost his temper and started banging his fist on the table, cursing Suse Linux, the world and the Universe…
I don’t know where you got the idea that Ubuntu is ‘Linux for humans’: Ubuntu uses Gnome as its desktop environment, and Gnome is *ugly* (let’s face it, all that’s important is how it looks)! And also gives you very limited control. You could try using KDE; it is much more intuitive and most importantly, very pretty.
I’ve been using Linux for 9 years now, and for 7 years I’ve been using Linux exclusively; I can easily get everything that I need done. Programmes run a lot faster than on Windows, and whenever I’m forced to use Windows I lose my nerves waiting for things to happen (despite the fact that most computers with Windows that I’ve had to use were much better as far as hardware is concerned than mine).
Also, I simply can’t live without the excellent copy-paste in Linux: just select text with your mouse and then middle click where you want to paste it. It’s awesome!
I’m using Gentoo Linux at the moment, which is very easy to use. For example, to install Beryl, all that you need to do is to open the console and type, as root, ‘emerge beryl’. All the dependencies are found and compiled as you go. The fact that programmes are compiled on your computer means that, whilst taking longer initially, they can be optimised to run faster and better.
(Admittedly I might find Gentoo so simple because for several years I used Linux from scratch - finding and compiling everything on my own.)
Beryl works great for me using open source ATI drivers, by the way.
Michael, maybe you just need someone who’s experienced with Linux to help you with the initial set-up and explain how things work. The fact that things are *different* in Windows isn’t really a proper reason to dismiss Linux: as Disablez said, the Windows environment must have been ‘different’ the first time you used it, too. That programmes crash, however, might be; nevertheless, I’ve experienced very few crashes ever (Linux is in fact famous for crashing LESS often!) and it really looks like there’s some sort of configuration problem with your installation.
In any case, I think dual boot can be a good idea if you’re not sure you want to make the switch; but then again, it also gives you the option of going to Windows every time you’d need to spend a minute or two learning how something works in Linux. This means you never really learn how to work in Linux and it’ll always seem hard, even though it really isn’t.
It’s all about perception. I have been using Linux for some 12 years now, and had hardly any experience with Windows.
Once I tried to install it, it took me hours to find drivers on the internet (which just doesn’t compare to automatically loaded modules with linux kernel).
Installing new programs was a nightmare of its own. I had to find a program that I wanted (while on Linux all is kept in centralized repositories, inspected and safe), make sure it was not infected by a virus, go through an nonuniform installer, and then realize that I actually have to pay for a program o.O in order to do stuff like use it for more than 30 minutes at a time or save a document.
Control Panel was a nightmare, and I still don’t understand how one can live without multiple virtual desktops or without uniform application look.
Then my eyes dropped out after having to look at non-antialised and subpixeled fonts, and I removed Windows and never looked back.
Not that I’m saying that Linux is better than Windows. I’m just saying that it is what you are used to that makes it human safe or not.
About Gentoo: while it is a very good
distro, it is definitely not for the light of heart. It requires extensive computer knowledge and is time consuimng to install and tweak according to one’s taste. Ubuntu, Kubuntu or Suse are the distros I’d recommend for a beginner trying to take a peak at Linux. Fedora is worth trying too. Also, if you feel unsure about installing Linux to your computer, get a LiveCD first:
www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php
Yes, it’s slow but hassle-free as everything loads from the cd and no installation is necessary.
in the end the smart ones switch to OS X, the best of both worlds
(and i was a hardcore linux desktop user for years)
I did things like this for a while. But then I found the most user-friendly, easy-to-set-up, visually stunning “linux” distribution available. It’s called Mac OS X.
The most profound thing I’ve ever heard said about linux is: “Linux is only free if your time has no value.” Too true.
Once Apple releases OS X for PC, I’ll switch immediatelly
Until then, I’m sticking with XP for as long as I can (and running Vista on a dedicated machine, locked away behind double tempered steel doors, 200 metres below ground, just to see if it explodes :D)
Took me over 6 months to get used to Ubuntu. Now, two years later, it is by far my OS of choice. I only boot Windows when I have a project that requires InDesign. I agree that GNU/Linux isn’t (yet) for everyone and is clearly work in progress.
Mmm I think you can run OSX on a PC already, pengovsky…
uneasysilence.com/os-x-proven-hacked-and-running-on-an-ordinary-pc/
although it can be painful!
Alex: “Linux for humans” is how it is (or was?) being marketed. And I do think I could have eventually figured it out, but the idea of losing hundreds of hours just to get as much functionality as XP has now — it’s just too demoralizing. The best description of XP I’ve read is: an “old workhorse of an operating system” from here. If you’re used to it (and I agree with Dejan that it’s all relative) and you know what you’re doing, it’s just rock-solid reliable. That’s why I think Linux will continue to have such a hard time winning converts. It’s a catch-22: People who know what they’re doing with XP don’t have to worry about viruses or security, or an ugly interface or stability. So they don’t need to switch. People who don’t know what the hell they’re doing on XP don’t even know that anything’s wrong, so they won’t think of switching either.
But I do think I would have had a better experience with a mentor. And if Alex is the Alex I think he is: I almost called you for help.
Maybe I’ll try again in a year or two, in which case I’ll consult with you first.
Erik: Too funny. I’ll have to remember that.
I agree with the Mac-Fans here and would switch to OS X if the hardware wasn’t almost twice the price of an ordinary PC.
I also agree with XP being the best windows so far (except the phone-home stuff).
I disagree with the statement that the gnome desktop is ugly - I’m perfectly happy with the standard Ubuntu Gnome - I prefer it simple (but I find KDE ok aswell). What Michael is comparing here is more some
piVista optical features and I personally can live without that CPU-wasting effects. For those of you who are scared of wrecking their Windows by trying out Linux: use life systems! A quite popular one in Germany is Knoppix. You just boot from CD/DVD and that’s it! If you want to save your settings, you can use a memory stick. When you have tried Linux enough, you just reboot your computer and it is still “untouched”.I installed Ubuntu Linux 3 months ago, dual booting with Windows (which I need for work when I’m on call about 4 weeks a year). I’ve booted into Windows maybe once since then. I use Linux to record audio, video, play Windows games like World of Warcraft, surf the web, read emails, get music onto my iPod, and all other sorts of good things.
My only real problem with it is the ATI Video driver, but I got that corrected by easily doing a search on google, which is what I would have done if I had problems with Windows. I’ve found Ubuntu to have good support when it comes to troubleshooting problems. Windows is not without it’s problems, I’ve had video card conflicts in the past, and problems with drivers for my network cards (installed a version from the Windows Update site and whenever I would use Bittorrent longer than 3 minutes the computer would decide to crash, had to search for ever to figure out that I had to install an older version of the driver from the manufacturer’s website)
Most applications I’ve used have installed with one or two clicks. While I agree that manually editing files to set settings is annoying, the same can be said about Windows Registry settings and old .INI files. In both cases you’d look on the internet on the exact instructions on how to go about making these changes.
At any rate you’re computer is your tool, and if you can’t be productive in Linux or it doesn’t have what you need to work, then there is no point in switching anyways.
Anyways for people to complain that there is a learning curve when switching, well sure, ya, it’ll take time to learn its nuances but it was the same with learning how to use Windows for the first time. And since you know how to use a mouse and point and click, you’re already halfway there. Something new is always scary, but it really isn’t all that bad if you just give it a chance. (I can just imagine: I have to edit a file manually?!!! I’ve never done that before I have no idea how to follow instructions, open a file and type…um…)
later!
I’ve been planning to switch over to Linux for the past few years for political reasons and also to impress all my geek friends. However last week at the prompting of a co-worker I downloaded Ubuntu, went through 10 steps, stuck in the boot disk and the “Ubuntu loading” screen popped up…and then, nothing. Not sure what went wrong but I was too exhausted to comb through pages and pages of FAQs and geekspeak to find out. So I am at a standstill. I am dumb and most people are dumber than me. Some well meaning geeks need to help build a sturdy bridge to bring us over, until them I am just gonna be here clutching to XP for dear life.
Ahh, but one of those days you’ll find yourself using mind tricks on MS sales people, converting them to Stallman fans.
Mark my words ! The dark side awaits !
@Dietmar - I would have to tend to disagree with the Mac fans.
I really don’t see what they love so much about it. I guess if they are using it for video editing then they have a case. But for everyday use I don’t see how it’s any easier than a PC. I find a few of the Mac features rather annoying. Like the default one-button mouse, no secondary menu option with a right click on a 2-button mouse. Or having to close out programs by going to file menu and clicking exit, or using the keyboard shortcut. Not as simple as hitting the X on the program window in XP. Also I was shocked to find out recently that Mac had no option for the prnt scrn key on PC. They fixed this with OS X with an Open+Apple+4 key combo but I can’t imagine not having that function all those years prior to OS X.
I’ve also noticed that some pages don’t load well since OS X doesn’t fully support some web video programs like Adobe Shockwave yet. Not to mention that Mac’s default media players will not play some streaming mp3’s (not saying windows media player is much better, but it at least plays pretty much all the normal video/audio files without having to add stuff). Not sure why the Mac will play some mp3s but not others.
Just adding those thought’s because I have a sister & father who use Mac’s and I find myself having to talk them through fixing, setting up stuff. So for those who say Mac’s are easier to use for computer novices, it’s not really true.
:: It’s a catch-22: People who know what they’re doing with XP don’t have to worry about viruses or security, or an ugly interface or stability. So they don’t need to switch. People who don’t know what the hell they’re doing on XP don’t even know that anything’s wrong, so they won’t think of switching either.
Sure, fair point. But then, there’s no one saying you should switch: it’s not as though Ubuntu developers are trying to force you to buy their product or something - it’s free after all. They don’t really gain very much from massive adoption of the system.
However, the argument that you’re used to the way Windows XP works doesn’t really hold up when you have to switch to a newer version eventually. Windows Vista has a considerably different look and feel. If you’re going to switch to either Vista or Linux, there’s a learning curve either way, and you may well just want to try out Linux considering that it’s a lot cheaper. Even if it might be slightly harder to get used to than Windows Vista if you’re coming from XP.
(And yes, until you’re forced to upgrade you’re riding high with XP, but you’re bound to have to upgrade your system at some point in the future. Because most of the Microsoft world is proprietary, if you’re going to want to use modern software, it simply isn’t going to work on XP in a few years.)
Oh, and I don’t think I’m the Alex you’re thinking of, but feel free to contact me if/when you decide to try out Linux next.
One thing I forgot to add. Mac fans will probably always say their OS’s are more stable than XP. If you think about it though, it should be. Since they are the only makers of the Macintosh, they can optimize their software specifically for the components they use.
Whereas XP has to support every conceivable combination of video cards, motherboards, cpu, memory, ethernet card, soundboards, etc. Much more chance for an unstable computer right there. Plus with all the companies like Compaq, HP, Gateway, Dell who try to pawn off at least one garbage component to keep down costs and make more profit, it’s no wonder most people have problems/dislike their PC’s.
XP has to support every conceivable combination…
good point, I’ve got to admit that. Btw. just found this
At least things are getting better with Linux - I mean compared to some years ago, it has really become much more user friendly.
Yeah baby! C64!
And then you switch to Lunix…
(Spent 3 hours (again) convincing Beryl to work on my laptop today. Phoey. OS X installed but wouldn’t boot. Vista imploded last week. Who needs all that iCandy anyway…)
Oh god, seems like no platform is sure of that… The only strange thing is that with this platform they’re quicker than the freaks from the BSD-systems who ported their OS for everything - from TV-settop boxes and game consoles up to washing machines and light bulbs…
Tried Unbuntu. Worst Mistake Ever, topping some of the girls I’ve dated and quitting college.
@Ironghost: LOL!
I know exactly what you mean… although I never installed any version of Linux 
Ubuntu can’t be worse than college girls - fdisk and format /mbr remove Ubuntu immediately and it’ll never bother you again. It isn’t that easy with women
Also re-installing Ubuntu will be easier than going back to college
Tried linux 4 years ago, started using it dual boot 2 years ago, 6 months ago finally erased winXP partition and never looked back.
At work I am forced to use windows XP and i really hate it. Linux is just SO much nicer. Also, if you want a nice looking desktop you might try enlightment. (e17)
Same experience. I’m back on win2000 for now. But soon I will use the “linux” Erik was talking about
Like his quote about linux, money and time …
Hm I tried Linux 15 years ago. Either most of the people are really stupid or I’m an exceptional genius, I installed it 15 years ago. It took around four hours, 50 floppy discs and I managed to install it every time ever since.
Michael, i have to correct you there. You have allways been on the dark side. You made a short trip to the bright side, but couldn’t take it, so you went back to the dark side. Too bad.
Oh yeah, there’s this other aspect of debian-based linux distributions (which ubuntu is) most critics simply forget about. Totally simple software installations and really painless upgrades. And while some people may take some time to configure some stuff, nobody seems to calculate the time, that one requires to install all the windows applications (ubuntu default desktop install comes with all of the office and similar stuff installed) and all of the windows serving shit that is not required on a serious OS. Antivirus/anti-spyware software is what i have in mind.
Then upgrades.In windows you upgrade by formatting your hard drive and installing from scratch (please don’t mention windows upgrade, because it doesn’t work). In ubuntu, there is a new release every six months and you are done with it in two clicks and a reboot, you get new versions of all the software you had installed and you keep your settings for everything, as opposed to windows, where you have to reinstall everything (rebooting about a milion times) and set everything up again. That take s a lot of time and i dare say it commulatively takes more time to deal with software installations and windows serving software, then it takes to configure linux (especially ubuntu) for the first time.
Michael, what was it that didn’t work for you, so you had to switch back?
Alex: Sorry for the mix-up. It seems there’s another Linux enthusiast named Alex who sometimes posts here. I appreciate the offer to help. And you’re right that my days with XP are numbered. I’m really hoping that in a few years, ubuntu will be ready for prime time. If it is, I’ll probably make the switch.
rox: The better question is what did work. And that was Thunderbird. Everything else caused me some level of grief. As I said, embedded flash caused Firefox to hang; even carniola.org showed up broken. (The search box stuck out) It also inexplicably crashed on me, something I can’t remember happening since the days of Firebird. I also had random audio problems in VLC: sometimes it crackled, sometimes files were mute. The disheartening thing was that sometimes just closing the file and starting it again made it work. At any rate, it was too much. I do like the fact that programs update themselves, and that you can install some programs by simply adding or removing them. That’s great. I think ubuntu has a lot of potential.
@rox: Not sure what “other” extra windows apps your talking about. All I have besides the OS is the Office suite. Is there any other base programs that you would need besides that..and that the unbuntu desktop comes with? Besides you really can’t blame Microsoft for not having Office packaged. I’m sure they would if they could but then they would most likely get slapped with a lawsuit for monopolistic practices like what happened with IE a few years back.
I always have to chuckle about the no need for anti-virus spiel with Mac’s & Linux. I’m wondering do all people who run those OS’s actually think that it’s that secure? I mean I don’t doubt that it’s MORE secure then XP, but it’s not fool proof. The fact is if Microsoft OS just went belly up and Linux became the new standard, you’d shortly be seeing a whole slew of virus popping up. The main reason you don’t see more of it is 1. The most vulnerable of users are running Windows, because all the people who don’t know much about computers just buy the default pre-loaded systems and they aren’t running Linux. So that’s the group the hackers go after. Hackers will always go after the easiest target. 2. The most used OS currently is Microsoft, so why bother writing viruses for the other 2 when you are going to run into more computers running Windows.
Microsoft does have it’s faults, it isn’t well written code…but that can be said of many programs these days. I see too many programs released with bugs, and the developers just saying I can patch it later. That’s bad business in my opinion.
Upgrades: I can’t say I’ve ever had problems with upgrading Windows, and never had to reformat my drive when upgrading. Rox, I take it by “windows upgrades” you meant the versions of windows that you buy that only upgrade windows and you need a prior version installed, right?
Michael, I’m using Firefox with Ubuntu 7.04 and carniola works perfectly. The searchbox is a few pixels too far to the right, but works well. VLC plays mms streams without any problems in my case. What sort of distribution did you use? Something especially made for that eyecandy or the standard one?