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Conspiracies abound on VeÄ?er’s editorial pages.
Anyone who has spent time in Europe knows that a healthy strain of anti-Americanism flourishes here, especially in the media. Unlike in the U.S., where the left traditionally supports Europe’s social-democratic ways and the right makes incessant fun of the French, here both sides of the political spectrum (right and left) hate Uncle Sam equally.
In Germany, serious conservative papers like the FAZ will just as gleefully take shots at the U.S. as everyone else. In that respect, Slovenia isn’t much different. A case in point: A recent editorial by Vojislav Bercko, foreign affairs correspondent for the Maribor-based newspaper VeÄ?er. The piece was called "Ko okupatorji uživajo." (When occupiers delight)
The subject of the editorial is the bombing of the Al Askari Mosque in Samarra, Iraq. Bercko’s take on it: The Americans are lovin’ it, because now Iraqis will fight each other and have manj Ä?asa in energije za napade na koalicijske vojake ("less time and energy to attack coalition forces") In other words, American forces will apparently benefit from being stuck in the middle of an out-of-control civil war, and even enjoy(?!) the ensuing bloodshed.
Keep in mind that right after the bombing, public support for the Iraq war dropped to an all-time low. As Juan Cole noted, "Bush now finds himself in the worst of all possible worlds… With Americans increasingly fed up with the Iraq debacle, he needs to start drawing down troops soon, but he can’t do it while the country teeters on the brink of civil war."
In other words, all hell breaking loose would be a flat-out disaster. U.S. forces would have to choose in a lose-lose situation: either a shameful withdrawl, or the extremely uncomfortable prospect of keeping two warring sides apart, possibly in perpetuo. My guess: the military wants chaos to break out there about as much as they’d like to see multiple earthquakes erupt there. I also don’t think that all the frantic diplomacy is just a clever ruse.
But of course, once you accept the proposition that America is a force of evil, everything is possible. Later on Bercko brings it up a notch: NemogoÄ?e je biti povsem pošten, ko ugibaš, kdo je v torek razstrelil kupolo šiitske mošeje v iraški Samari. Lahko so bili na delu sunitski skrajneži, lahko pa tudi ameriški ali drugi specialci, ki bi želeli v imenu svoje vlade povzroÄ?iti kaos. (It’s impossible to be sure when speculating about who blew up the dome of the mosque in Samarra on Tuesday. It could have been Sunnis, or then again Americans or other specialists wanting to cause chaos in the name of their government.) (Emphasis is mine)
I laughed out loud when I read this part. But to be fair, he’s not the only one who suspected a devious American hand here: Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah also immediately implicated the Great Satan of being involved. I don’t know what their evidence is, but Bercko has rock-solid proof: the sumljiv in zgovoren… molk mednarodne skupnosti. (The suspicious and revealing silence of the international community) He singles out Condoleezza Rice especially, before wrapping up with: Saj ji tega tudi treba ni bilo; ameriški administraciji oÄ?itno ustreza, da se IraÄ?ani pobijajo med seboj. (It [saying something] wasn’t necessary; it obviously suits the American administration for Iraqis to fight each other.)
First of all, American officials did say something; Bush even promised to help rebuild the thing — on the same day as the bombing. The next day he called it an "evil act" while Rice commented that speculation about civil war was harmful. The U.N. Security Council and secretary general also condemned the attacks. Is that what qualifies as "suspicious" silence?
In conclusion, I guess one can only speculate about why Bercko wrote such an editorial. Perhaps he just wrote it under time pressure, or perhaps he’s being paid by the Iranian government to publish anti-American articles. The fact that he never says that he’s in the pay of Iran is pretty revealing, though. Either way, the Iranian administration clearly benefits from VeÄ?er’s editorials.
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i tried to find this article on the veÄ?er pages, but couldn’t (well wouldn’t) access it, because i’d have to pay for it. i did find a counter-article, by the american ambassador, very enlightenly entitled "okupatorji ne uživajo", i.e. "the occupators are not having fun at all", to counter the malicious accusations posed in the article you’ve got pictured above, namely that "the occupators are having fun". a more nitpicking type or person than myself might find themselves wondering whether the non-denial of the word "occupator" in the ambassador’s response might mean something. not me. i found the neighbouring article much more interesting. it says that špelca (yes, that’s the blond one) is leaving atomik harmonik!
A yes the healthy strain. Usually the same people that defend the sovereigncy of a dictator lead country. Sick.Besides everyone wants to portray US of A as an evil Empire ruled by Darth Bush. It’s fashionable don’t fight it.
Well the suspense is over! I’m glad about that! I doubt very much the Americans are enjoying the civil war, it makes a truley rotten situation even worse. Even though the U.S. army is an army of volunteers, they have relatives who didn’t want to lose their son, their daughter, their cousin, their brother, their sister, grandchild, etch. The relatives didn’t volunteer for it.I doubt if even the most willing of soldiers could be enjoying what is going on. It’s totally illogical to think so.
NOOOOO! the blonde one CAN’T leave Atomik Harmonik! NOOOOOO! *runs screaming into the night*,,,,,,,,,,,
In my humble opinion the problem with such articles is that they are reducing the credibility of other articles that criticize the US foreign policy with ‘real’ arguments. Far fetched (to say the least) theories of Bercko are very easily overthrown and have a lot to say about the author (Iranian spy?!?!). With such articles he’s doing the people that he’s trying to criticize a favour.
MihaP, I think you hit the nail on the head. Hard.
Civil war will (is) happen(ing) regardles of their presence so what’s the point of foreign military presence?
Bravo for this one: "But of course, once you accept the proposition that America is a force of evil, everything is possible." I notice too many people who base their views on America upon this preconception and I find it difficult to lead a reasonable political discussion with them. Any opinion that does not oppose the Satan is somehow created by his own evil, at least in their view. It seems that some of them are journalists.
And then there are also people in Slovenia who don’t believe that Milosevic is guilty of any crimes attributed to him.It seems difficult for many people to believe that honest aims but also real criminals with blood on their hands could and sometimes do exist… Maybe one needs balls for such "esoteric thinking".
Always the same story. Weapons don’t solve problems, but transform them into new ones. It has always been this way - every war "ended" with new conflicts. As long as weapons stay in bussines blood will be spilled over and over again. But then again a Ghandi approach after lives have been lost is not possible no more. So I’d say let them handle things themselves. The occupation should come to an end, the US forces and others involved should give this nation financial refund for lives and things lost. And apologize and don’t even think about repeating your fatal error again in some other country (other persian states for example). There are other ways of how to remove a dictator, you should know which one will suite the situation. Traffic accidents preffered.
I lost my virginty a long time ago… Take a look at this article in Le Monde Diplomatique which will partly explain the European intelligentsia’s viewpoint on American politics. The title of the article is Mensonges d’Etat (Lies of the State): www.monde-diplomatique.fr/2003/07/RAMONET/10193
my first comment was to your misterious disapearing post, and as you have now elaborated on that one, my comment feels slightly askew.seeing the whole of the actual article disected like this, i wouldn’t mind taking some of the lightheartedness of my first comment back, if i could. the article itself truly is a masterpiece of speculative conspiracy theory journalism that has no place in any selfrespectable newspaper. it’s a demonstration of how the human mind apparently operates easiest when thinking in bland stereotypes (another one being CCFly’s comment… anti-americans in europe support dictatorship? wtf is up with that?)
nonetheless, i still resent the blonde chick for leaving atomik harmonik.
First of all. VeÄ?er is not a paper that should be taken seriously. Second of all, it is all Americans to blame. By your belief, you also had nothing to do with Cuba being poor, with Panama revolutions etc. The simple fact is that you tend to mingle into business that doesn’t concern you at all. You went to Iraq and didn’t exactly win. Now, any democratic country would fall back and admit their mistake. And on top of it all you re-elected the same president you despise. However, I would point out that I disagree with what was written in the article.
I don’t remember having something to do with Cuba being poor, but it’s true that I can’t account for a few hazy years in my 20s. God only knows what I was up to, but it was probably no good. Ohh rum and coke: I curse your sweet pairing!Jokes aside, I assume you meant that I, as an American, am collectively responsible for the actions of the government. That’s an interesting thought; I wonder if it also applies to you, since the Slovenian government has given the war its official stamp of approval and sent a symbolic handful of soldiers (4) to Iraq. Could we say that you also went to Iraq and didn’t exactly win? That you also haven’t fallen back and admitted your mistake? And that Janša has a pretty decent chance of getting re-elected?Do you see how collective blame isn’t exactly the best of notions?
There is a very thin line between analisys and speculation. Editorial is supposed to analyse and put things into perspective - and if "important new facts" are presented in the editorial they should be backed up. I didn’t follow the story od the mosque bombing closely, but I’m sure if the US did it all hell would have already broken loose. But let me complicate things a bit:As Michael rightly put it, the US is in a no-win scenario in Iraq. If they don’t leave, the public opinion drops below freezing point. If they leave, Iraq becomes the black-hole of the world. At the moment it is amlost impossible to tell, who the good guys are. And I wonder I that might have been Bercko’s point (I haven’t read the original editorial): that there are no good guys in Iraq. So it doesn’t really matter, who blows something up, because there it is in noone’s interest to bring peace and stability to Iraq (of course, the ordinary Iraqi people would love that, but hey, they don’t vote or have oil wells).Back home, George Bush has only a PR problem. Nothing a good cover story or a special feature on Fox News can’t fix. His real problem lies in the fact that his administration is having trouble keeping the rebels at bay while the oil corporations move in to make profits from Iraqi oil.While Bercko’s editorial may be flat wrong, off target and a very forgetable peace of journalism, it does again point out several key facts of this sorry Iraqi saga: that it is an occupation of one sovereign country by another. That the US is extremely unwelcome in Iraq. And that the two have done nothing to improve the attitude most of the world has towards the current US administration. And when anti-Bushism becomes anti-Americanism in the minds of the simple, then you’ve got a real problem.
I am sory, but you (USA, NATO agressors) are really trying hard to find hate. If Iraq want’s to have a dictatorship that is their own problem and you have no right whatsoever to interfere. Why didn’t you ever attack the USSR or the People’s republic of China? American soldiers=mercenaries. They are getting what they deserve.
it’s a demonstration of how the human mind apparently operates easiest when thinking in bland stereotypes (another one being CCFly’s comment… anti-americans in europe support dictatorship? wtf is up with that?)Boldfaced healthy - strain as in irattional anti-americanism (the word itself does allready imply irattional) which is so popular here (or hopefully it was). In simply proving, that "America is evil and the rest of the world is just suffering under their boot" (see another stereotype), they have no problem with being a devil’s advocate. You can call such generalisation a bland stereotype but VeÄ?er’s journalist fits it perfectly. In fact all anti-americans fit otherwise they are critics of american policy. No I have no bland sterotypes for those. They are not bland they don’t need stereotypes.
Is there a reason wby the comment I left earlier isn’t showing up?
Hold on, let’s go back a bit here. Did I hear correctly? The blonde one from Atomik harmonik is leaving??
Well, almost five hours later and still no sign of my comment, so let me try again. Good thing I’m not a paranoid conspiracy theorist.(slightly revised and typo-free–I hope–version): I don’t know which group or groups was behind the bombing of the Samarra mosque. So far no one has claimed responsibility. But a credible case can be made for the involvement of Anglo-American black ops in deliberately stirring up sectarian violence and internal chaos. Experienced, reputable journalists have been reporting on the issue for a while: Newsweek http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6802629/site/newsweek/ carried a major story on the use of the so-called "Salvadoran option" in Iraq in January 2005–i.e. the use of Special Forces teams to advise, support and train Iraqi death squads. As Think Progress notes http://thinkprogress.org/2006/03/02/roots-of-iraq-civil-war-may-be-in-salvador-option/ the sectarian death squads running rampant today are tied directly to the Iraqi Ministry of the Interior. Robert Fisk asks http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12137.htm "Who runs the Ministry of Interior in Baghdad? Who pays the Ministry of the Interior? Who pays the militia men who make up the death squads? We do, the occupation authorities." See also Pepe Escobar at The Asia Times: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/GF10Ak03.html and Dahr Jamail’s unembedded reports from Iraq. In particular, this one, "Who Benefits?" http://dahrjamailiraq.com/weblog/archives/dispatches/000365.php#more and here: http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/030306Z.shtml The last thing the U.S. wants is a strong national unity government in Iraq, with friendly ties to Iran and demanding an end to US occupation and permanent military bases (under construction as we speak). I believe it’s called "divide and conquer"–an age-old strategy. Not necessarily what Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al had in mind when they made up their minds to invade. They naively thought they could install a friendly, pro-US client regime (a government of national unity would be just fine provided it took its orders from Washington). Obviously that didn’t happen. So this is the fallback. You don’t have to have an irrational belief that the US is "The Great Satan" to be skeptical of the claim that it is pro-democracy, pro-freedom, and a force for good in the world. All you have to do is take a look at the well-documented historical record of American postwar foreign policy: military invasion, covert action, meddling in elections, media manipulation, torture, terror, abuse of human rights, suppression of dissent, smearing of critics, and so on.
Does anyone else get this message when they try to post comments? Thank You for Commenting Your comment was sent. You must wait for the board administrator to approve it. Please do not re-submit your comment. Is it because I included URLs? Or is there something else going on?
Jean: If you post URLs, especially more than one I think the comment goes through moderation. That’s because of comment spammers that love to include URLs to their websites. Very nicely put, Michael. The Vecer journalist should apply for a job at the National Enquirer. I hear they like people who show up for the interview in a tin-foil hat.
mAT: I truly hope — for your sake (and your sake alone) — that you were being sarcastic. I’ve been a determined opponent of the war since day one, but to say that American soldiers are getting what they deserve, if meant without sarcasm, is just sickening. It sounds like the irrational rantings of all too many Tito-nostalgic Slovenian "liberals" (who, BTW, wouldn’t recognize a real liberal if their life depended on it), who always resort to provocative slogans just for the shock of it, but rarely take the time to think about what they are saying.Surely your horizons are not that limited that you cannot see youreslf in the shoes of an ordinary, decent American soldier putting his or her life on the line in Iraq. If you cannot see that, you are no better than many Neocons and their fellow travelers who simply didn’t care about Iraqi deaths, as long as they got their "payback."Some Slovenian "liberals" remind me of American Neocons in the most unexpected of ways.
The difference between American anti-europism and European anti-americanism is that American anti-europeism seems to be based on some actual political basis (ex: rednecks hate the European Welfare State, France’s stand on the War in Iraq, etc.), while in Europe, anti-americanism is a cultural issue. It’s a sport. It’s a matter of good manners. It’s just something you do without thinking much. That’s why it’s so annoying: it’s a specifically European way to avoid thinking. Or, as South Park put it: Blame Canada! MihaP: "In my humble opinion the problem with such articles is that they are reducing the credibility of other articles that criticize the US foreign policy with ‘real’ arguments."That’s exactely the point!
I must say that hating on the U.S. is such jolly good fun that I certainly have no intentions of letting mere reality dissuade me from doing it
Yup it’s quite fashionable these days to diss the "evil empire". It’s almost ironic how the US is becoming the ultimate scape-goat for all the middle-eastern problems and beyond. I’m certainly not saying they’re blameless, but these days America would probably be blamed even if a giant meteor struck. It was kind of amusing listening to middle-eastern people cursing the evil Americans for those unfortunate DANISH caricatures. Crazy.About this article though: the guy’s obviously one of those anywhere-the-wind-blows people. Today dissing the US with ridiculius arguments… who knows maybe tomorrow mullets will be in fashion again and he’ll write about the joys of having one of those.
Slovenian government has given the war its official stamp of approval and sent a symbolic handful of soldiers (4) to Iraq. Could we say that you also went to Iraq and didn’t exactly win? That you also haven’t fallen back and admitted your mistake? And that Janša has a pretty decent chance of getting re-elected?Do you see how collective blame isn’t exactly the best of notions?So let me see. You are comparing an open assault on a sovereign nation under false pretenses to sending 4 soldiers to assist in training of home police? Interesting. So you probably compare Guantanamo to an arrest of Mr Auer?All I am saying is that American government gives us an impression that all of USA citizens are like them. When in fact, they are not. Hey. It is not just us. Americans give the exact same impression to everyone that is not American. Don’t blame us. Seek a repsonsibility in USA government and relations to foreign countries, UN etc.
Xeno wrote: "All I am saying is that American government gives us an impression that all of USA citizens are like them. When in fact, they are not. Hey. It is not just us. Americans give the exact same impression to everyone that is not American. Don’t blame us. Seek a repsonsibility in USA government and relations to foreign countries, UN etc."What? How? Why? It’s your choice to have your views. It’s not up to the U.S. government to inform you that there’s dissent in America. Here’s your assignment: start at the Daily Kos. Move on to Slate. Peruse Crooks and Liars. But - I think that any notion that there’s dissent in America, or that one American you might meet is different than another American (just as it is in Slovenia and Myanmar) will be lost on you. You’ve made your choice.The vast majority of people that I’ve met throughout the world do not have your impression.
"The vast majority of people that I’ve met throughout the world do not have your impression."<>That would probably be because you were with all Americans. There is one thing I noticed on my journies across Europe and that is that Americans only meet and talk with Americans. Interesting. <>And btw. Your government represents you. You elected it. Well if not you, wast majority of your co-citizens. Hence the message they are sending out is a representation of what most of you believe. <>As far as Americans goes. Yes, I do have a choice to think how I want. However, that doesn’t mean I am thinking the way you like it. I don’t hate Americans per-se. However I do think that this: "But - I think that any notion that there’s dissent in America, or that one American you might meet is different than another American (just as it is in Slovenia and Myanmar) will be lost on you. You’ve made your choice." represents a typical "either you are with us or against us" belief. The truth however, is in the middle.
Oh, Xeno, you’ve seen plenty of examples of Americans meeting and talking with people other than Americans. I’m often in Slovenia, and I only hang out with one American there, and I’m not entirely sure that I like her all that much. With the examples that you observe, you simply choose to ignore them. But the minute that an American does something obnoxious or something that is “typically American,” it goes on your list of reasons why you dislike America and Americans. Please note that I don’t believe what I’ve just written applies to *all* Slovenians, Europeans, non-Americans, etc. I’m solely talking about you.
Xeno: "Americans give the exact same impression to everyone that is not American."Hello! Talk for yourself.But let’s be honest: what’s sooo bad that is doing the American government that we should blame all Americans for supporting it? It has invaded a country. Well, as a historian let me say: big deal! Look what Russia is doing. Look what France is doing in Africa. Look what China is doing, etc. The only difference is that this doesn’t get to the western media, so we get the impression that Amnerica is the source of every possible evil. But let me inform you: it ain’t.
Patrick: "Please note that I don’t believe what I’ve just written applies to *all* Slovenians, Europeans, non-Americans, etc. I’m solely talking about you."<>Getting it personal, I see. As I said, I don’t dislike Americans per-se. But I dislike people that think that I should be of exact same belief as they are. However, you are so oppinonated about a single person that dared to be of different oppinion than you are, that you woun’t believe me even if hell froze. <><><><><> Luka: "But let’s be honest: what’s sooo bad that is doing the American government that we should blame all Americans for supporting it? It has invaded a country. Well, as a historian let me say: big deal! Look what Russia is doing. Look what France is doing in Africa. Look what China is doing, etc. The only difference is that this doesn’t get to the western media, so we get the impression that Amnerica is the source of every possible evil. But let me inform you: it ain’t.<>" <><>You really think so? I guess I should have been a historian to understand that. (caugh*sarcasm*caugh) <><><>Did I ever mention that USA is a single source of evil? That would be stupid. However, this original post was about Americans, not Russians, Chinese or even French. But if we go there, I would like to express my oppinion that as you see an invasion as "big deal!", I see an invasion as a thing that should never happen in the first place! EVER! Nobody gives you a right to enforce your opinion, your religion, your government type to anybody. Nobody.<>
You can find a lot of Berckos in some polical parties, like in AS (Aktivna Slovenija) and MF SD (Mladi forum SD). A lot of extremely stupid Slovenians in those two clubs!
"Nobody gives you a right to enforce your opinion, your religion, your government type to anybody. Nobody."Yeah, well, good for you. But try to lead a foreign policy on that principle.
I’m not going to be nationalistic here, so the next paragraph applies to all soldiers, who have willingly joined the army (countries like Slovenia, United States and United Kingdom have armies, to which soldiers join on their free will).People, who willingly join the army, have literally made the contract with the government, that they will kill other poeple for money. People, who are actually willing to do that, really deserve to die, so i am really happy when i hear that a mercenary has been killed. I sincerely hope, that the 4 professional murderers this country’s government has sent so Iraq will all be killed, because it will make this country a better place. All 100000+ american soldiers should die too.
rox,So it was professional murderers who defended us on the barricades of 1991? Was it professional murderers who won WWII and ensured our nation’s survival? Was it a gang of professional murderers who, after WWI, ensured that Maribor isn’t known as Marburg today and that some crazy politician isn’t taking down all the Slovene-language signs in the city? Was my great-grandfather a professional murderer because he participated in a militia that prevented the Italians from taking most of the Julian Alps just because they saw it as a strategic value? I don’t know about you, but I really like and respect professional murderers like that.
Nope, those people were not professional murderers. Those people were not paid, for once, they found themselves in wartime with significant evil to fight and they did it either because they were enlisted or because they wanted to do something about the situation. Today’s soldiers don’t have any big evil to fight, and what they do is they set the stage for corporations to swallow new markets and they kill people for that and get paid for it. Professional murderers.I respect the partisans any anybody else, who fought against the nazis in WWII.
Yes, Špelca is leaving Atomik Harmonik. If you think you are blonde enough (required) and can sing (optional), send mail to kontakt@atomikharmonik.com .
did that happen when clinton was the US president?i don’t think so.maybe europeans just don’t like the US politics. although that veÄ?er comment was definitely innaceptable, maybe US media comments are also out-of-line with regards to europe (esp. france as you pointed out… CNN compared demonstrations in france to “Tiannanmen”).
OK, i commented on the half-posted article. with the full one my comment is not necessary.i agree that veÄ?er was out of line to completely imbecile.though i don’t think generalizing on european newspapers being all as stupid as the worst of them is smarter than generalizing that americans are all as stupid as bush.