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A cereal sold in Slovenia in the year 2005. No, really.
This cereal box was the original inspiration for the Things you Probably Won’t See in the U.S. category. I think it’s been stored on my computer for more than a year now, but I somehow never got around to posting it.
That
said, I don’t quite know where to begin with it. These kind of racial
caricatures were fairly common in the U.S. up until about the 1960s.
(You can see a collection of authentic pre-civil rights images here.) There were also plenty of offensive foodstuffs
mocking various ethnic groups in the U.S., but almost all of them have
since vanished. Nowadays, products are carefully and vigorously
scrutinized to make sure there isn’t a hint of insult or possible
misinterpretation, and quickly repaired if there accidentally is. For
example, racial caricatures aside, I highly doubt an American company
would let the cook happily pour his milk into the cereal from his
pevlic area. They just wouldn’t.
Slovenia still seems to be wholly indifferent to these types of
concerns. Of course, it probably doesn’t help that the country is 99%
white. (Speaking of which, I’m regularly surprised by how comfortably
Slovenes use the word nigga, or its variants, among themselves.) But I know that Slovenia isn’t unique in this regard. For example, here’s what a package of rice currently being sold in Estonia looks like, courtesy of Scott.
That
said, it’s pretty clear that the cereal box isn’t ill-intended.
Slovenia just still lacks the aseptic caution of western commercial
enterprises. But I’m pretty sure those days will be over soon.
Comments
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In Austria you can see the Meinl-Mohr. "Mohr" is a very old world for a person with black skin.
www.meinl.at/ In Germany a special type of chocolate
coated marshmallows is not called "Negerkuss" - negroe kiss - anymore.
In Austria the same kind of sweets is called "Schwedenbombe" -
Sweden-bomb. A guy from Sweden invented it.
"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of
former slaves and the sons of former slave-owners will be able to sit
down together at a table of brotherhood and eat Choco Pops." Frankly, I don’t see anything wrong with it. There is nothing xenophobic with two kids and an afro-ameircan standing together. I find it rather funny and creative for implying the colour of the skin. I have often heard kids say that negroes have "chocholate skin". I also don’t see poblems with linking the Chinese with rice, Italians with pizza, French with cheeese… It’s all because of stereotypes.Pelvis area, Michael??? My god, you do have a sick mind.
Don’t get me wrong I agree with what is being said, but maybe here is a one for the category Things You Probably won’t see in Slovenia (hope so ddd)http://www.idleriot.com/media/videos/Random/1589/Young_Dumb_and_Racist.html
Abaris: I don’t think that Michael was surprised by the fact that the box features an African(-American?) man. Rather, what strikes some as quaint and potentially problematic is the fact that the man is caricatured — he has huge lips and teeth, as well as hair straight from a 1930s cartoon. Black people simply don’t look like that — or, rather, they do mostly to people to whom Blacks are exotic.Another unfortunate detail is that the African(-American?) man is a cook, while both of the children are white. Anyone who is familiar with the history of advertising imagery knows that, before the 1960s, most African-Americans, on the rare occasions they were shown in ads, were portrayed as subservient cooks, maids, and servants — never as, say, businesspeople or even as potential consumers. This was true in many multi-racial societies, not just the US.As Michael said, the people behind this ad may not have been aware of these issues, but to those of us who are, the imagery shown here just doesn’t look right.
novala: I remember when they were called Negerkuss. They sell those things here as well, in the original German packaging. (i.e. as Dickmann’s)abaris:
I don’t think the problem is linking blacks and chocolate, but the
image of the black guy itself. His lips and mouth constitute half of
his head, very much like the old blatantly racist cartoons from many
years ago. (You’re right that I have a sick mind, though. It urgently
needs either a psychologist or a bazooka. Probably both.)miha: Good Lord, that was creepy.
I remember that they used to sell a toothpaste called "Darkie" in Asia in the late 80’s. It featured a drawing of a grinning black man with huge lips and gleaming white teeth. They later changed the name to "Darlie", but if memory serves, it somehow wasn’t deemed necessary to scrap the picture as well.
You’d love the Turkish answer to Oreos, aptly called "Negro": http://www.etietieti.com/English/products/sandwichcreams.aspInsulting caricatures aside, I do think that Americans are being hyper-sensitive to the point of anticipatory obedience. Us Austrians, we’re so grateful when we’re not confused with Australians for a change that we even don’t mind being caricatured as lederhosen-wearing Bavarians. Well, almost. And Novala, the Meinl-Mohr is sacred. It’s our alternative heraldic animal.
I think americans always exaggerate on this issue cos they feel guilty for the past slavery of their black people. I mean…if black persons have bigger lips then in a parody they’ll have enormous lips…it’s how parody works, racism has nothing to do with it, they’re just funny (maybe stupid) stereotypes and cliches. I mean…a parody is there to make you laugh (like in this ad), if you can’t laugh at our little difference you’ll never smile at our huge similarity.
that somebody it’s me…sorry i forgot to sign!
KAKO PA VI PRIPRAVILA POLI!!???!!? CHOP-CHOP-CHOP!!!
I felt uneasy enough when Goca Trzan (or somebody like that) performed something last year with a vaguely calypso rhythm flanked by two grinning black men in Hawaiian shirts, but this strikes me as worse somehow…
Just came across Mrs. Retail Therapist’s entry which contains this nice
passage: […] "she almost ended up marrying him but then decided she
could not spend
the rest of her life together with someone who – among other things –
was obsessed with being politically correct and cringed when she
committed the mortal sin of ordering ‘black coffee’".[…]
onemorehandbag.blogspot.com/2005/11/disappointed.html
In Mexico we have a very famous comic, called Memin Pinguin (the tales of a black boy) created by a woman (Yolanda Vargas) after a trip to Cuba where she became fascinated by the black children.http://www.banderasnews.com/0507/images/memin-pinguin.jpg. Recently, this comic celebrated its 50th anniversary and postal stamps were issued by the goverment http://i.esmas.com/image/0/000/004/347/meminNT_.jpgBelieve it or not, the stamps had to be cancelled by request of White House after it became a diplomatic issue.
I wonder…what would have happened if Memin pinguin would have been white? would it be a racial issue also?Americans have their own racial issues, that does not mean other countries have the same (we have others)
To me personally, being politically correct is just one way of
www.delikatesa.si/img/kava4.jpg
establishing the racist perspective - or better: giving it the opposite
and thus establishing its existance. It’s a lot like what happened to
Eve and Adam. Before her snack off the tree of knowledge, nobody needed
the figue leaf to cover the "indecency". That’s exactly how I percieve
political correctness - which instead of universally blurring the
unmeaningfulness of skin color and other "personal circumstances",
usually evolves into complete absurdity.
Another fine example of (in my opinion) completely innocent
politically INcorrect visual statement, which in all aspects serves the
product in the territory where it is sold (ie Slovenia). Probably
wouldn’t do that good in the USA.
"Slovenia just still lacks the aseptic caution of western commercial enterprises. But I’m pretty sure those days will be over soon."I really can’t see anything wrong with the Choco Pops box, or the Gorenjka chocolate ad. Could someone please give me a hint, what could possibly be racially problematic there?? My opinion is that many of you are just way to sensitive about this subject.As one already said….some Americans are still obvisously mentally in the era of the segregation, and slavery. That’s why they have to hide their racist mentality behind some fictitious problems like a black person on the box of a serials. Some of us are black, some of us are white; some have huge lips, some don’t; and some have bodies like a delicious chocolate. I don’t see anything wrong with having a body that is similar to a sweet chocolate. But….obviously some have problems with that. Some serious problems….Are jokes about Mujo, Haso, and Fatima also problematic?
The name of the category (Things You Probably Won’t See in the U.S.) says it all - you won’t see such things in the USA because they are non-PC there, but you see them in Slovenia because here they aren’t problematic.
Lojze_z_doline: Well, if you read some of the previous comments, you’ll find out just why some of us see the image as problematic. The key words here are stereotypes and racial caricatures, which is why, for instance, I find the image disturbing. We may politely disagree, of course, but your statement that some of us have "serious problems" because of our views is entirely absurd. Maybe, just maybe, if you lived in a multi-racial society, had daily contacts with Blacks (rather than perhaps seeing them as exotic), and were aware of how people of color were once portrayed in advertisements, you may have different views. Or maybe not. But you certainly wouldn’t have a "serious problem" one way or the other.BTW, would an image of a Jew with a huge nose and ears, bathing in gold (to use another tired old another ethnic caricature), also be perfectly acceptable on a cereal box? I, for one, would raise the same objections.
ipe: I really don’t know where to start…..first of all: being a common Slovene, I don’t find it disturbing when Croats call me "Janez" for example. And I believe a common Jew with at least some sense of humour would not mind seeing your image on a cereal box, called "Gold" for example.But anyway. that black person’s caricature is no less stereotyped than the caricatures of those two white kids. It’s a caricature for god sake, it’s supposed to be stereotyped. It’s not supposed to be a hyper realistic painting, nor a photograph. It’s a caricature. The only thing that is fairly real there, are the choco pops.However, i believe you did not understand my "serious problems" statement. So, let me explain it (hopefully the meaning will not get completely lost due to my poor English): the way I see it, black people went through many bad things that were mostly caused by whites. Starting with the segregation, slavery, and poverty. However, at some point in history, the destructive nature of a typical colonial white person became far too obvious, and the arguments of persons like Luther King were way too strong for a common white racist to continue with his/her racist ideas. In that point, many white racists developed the autocensorship, which helped them from not getting marked by the society as the "racist". However, the racist would still not see the problem of segregation, he/she would just censor his/her opinion when needed. You have to know that for a racist segregation is equally unproblematic as a common innocent caricature. But the autocensorship would still censor both - if that would be needed. So, if I return to what I wanted to say:All of the things on that box are stereotyped one way or another, starting with the photo of the careals. It is almost identical to zillions of other photos on most of other careal boxes around the world. The white kids are equally stereotyped, and so is the black person. Noticing only the black person, and debating about black person only and not including the stereotyped white kids in that debate therefore shows that you can’t tell the difference between innocent caricature and real racial problem - in other words, you have your autocensorship on. However, some of us don’t need the autocensorship, cause we can tell the difference between racism and innocent caricature. We know that racism is highly idiotic, innocent caricatures however are not.Hopefully you got my point and will prove me wrong.
99 % white? Last time you were mentioning something like this it was
102 % white. I take it’s the EU toll that we got a few more niggas in
here lately; presumably the only thing we got from there so far… ;-o
And no — I’m not being a racist, I’m merely speaking openly –
which is the opposite of censorship, that is being politically
correct…And why are we 99 % white… because this is
Europe! It’s not E Pluribus Unum (or at least it wasn’t until a
few years/decades ago), it’s _the_ region of the White people. As for
Slovenia — unlike e.g. France we never had any colonies from whence
the black people would come to this part of the world. OK, our former
country had a few colonies, but they/we were stripped of these colonies
right after World War I.
Lojze: I definitely see your point and even agree with many of your arguments. Yes, surface self-censorship is a major problem, and latent racism is, in many ways, even tricker to combat that blatant racism.However, the thing that bothers me about the caricature is not that certain facial features are exaggerated — that, as you correctly point out, is what caricatures are all about – but rather the fact that those exaggerated features are racial ones. In other words, the caricature exaggerates specific features (such as bigger lips) through which people of African descent — or stereotypes thereof — differ from Europeans. A typical black person only has big lips in comparison to a typical white person, not in absolute terms. This is why I don’t think such caricatures are acceptable — black people, generally speaking, simply don’t see themselves that way, and why should they? After all, should a stereotypical white person represent the commonly accepted definition of "average," and everything that departs from that average be the subject of caricature? That just strikes me as an ethnocentric point-of-view.
P.S. Lojze: BTW, I noticed that you addressed your post to ipe, but I assume you were responding to me.
AZ2SI, ops yeah, I was really responding to you. My mistake. Anyway, I see your point. And I agree. However, I still hope that some day our society will be advanced enough so that everybody will have a chance to express their thoughts freely (as long as these are not thoughts produced by the human stupidity - as racism is). Meaning, that a black person’s caricature made through white man’s eyes will not offend anyone, and vice versa. We are all different, and I see absolutely nothing wrong in telling others how I see them - even if it is stereotyped (but not meant to be offensive in any way). And moreover - I usually love to see the stereotyped image of myself. Then I know that I still have much to impress those that have a stereotyped image of me in their heads.
Dunno. Wouldn’t Uncle Ben’s rice fall in this same category? I guess we just always took it for granted here. There are virtually no black people or native americans here to be offended at all the stereotypes about them we use to try selling our products. And the way a typical mindset here is… I guess we’d just expect an average african&native american to chuckle seeing such "racial slurs" as "Viki" cream or "ZamorÄ?ek" coffe.
Those choco-pops look good to me! yum!
White: “Proud to be white!”
Black: “Proud to be black!”
So, who’s the racist here?
Or perhaps:
Black: “I only date black men/women.”
White: “I only date white men/women.”
Racism is overblown. Slavery ended about 150 years ago. KKK about 30. Considering a cereal box being racist is simply stupid. Maybe it wasnt 30 years ago.
"Slavery ended about 150 years ago. KKK about 30." Uhm,
KKK ended 30 years ago? Where have YOU been for the past 30 years?
They’re still out there, breeding hatred towards their fellow
Americans. Google it and you’ll see. And the
problem with racial caricatures isn’t mainly that somebody might get
offended, but that they contribute to maintain racial stereotypes while
most of us are trying to create societies without racial prejudice. We
have about 16% "non-whites" here in Sweden, and still people around the
world stereotype us as blonde and blue-eyed. It doesn’t exactly help
our efforts to establish a multicultural society with a non-ethnic
definition of what a Swede is.
To DJ all I can say is: take a look around you. Spaniards, Italians,
Albanians, Greeks…are they all white? A question of definition I
guess, and I would be the last to try to seperate us from each other,
but to call Europe a white continent is ridiculous. Come to Sweden some
time.
I´m from Mexico , and i don´t know if you had tried the “pancakes Jemina”, but here they are known as “Hot cakes de la Negrita”. but i think nobody here has been so sensitive
i’m also from mexico… and i agree with the fact that for us, race differences are not a huge deal, because we are a bunch of mixtures ourselves!! and don’t think of the race as a determinant aspect of a person, that’s why you don’t mind if there is an black person in an advertisment…