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How to Privatize a Street Sign
"No Entry … except for family and friends."
DISCLAIMER: This sign is written in Serbian/Croatian, which means the sign is somewhere in the former Yugoslavia. Not Slovenia.
(Thanks, Dejan!)
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Haha, love it!
You should be more specific as to where the “privatized” street sign stands. True, it’s from ex-Yugoslavia (it’s posted in the ex-Yu category), but it certainly isn’t from Slovenia (it’s not written in Slovene) as someone might think (after all, this blog is supposed to be about “Life in Slovenia”).
Valuk: I fixed the situation, as you can see in the new banner. That should legally protect me from any “false advertising” lawsuits. I hope.
I agree. I getting sick and tired of seeing posts from ex-yu, I mean Slovenia has been independent now for over a decade and this site is supposed to be about Slovenia.
Get over it!
PS: I like the new banner but what else can be done to stop this nonsense.
The banner is unnecessary. What is necessary is a caption under the picture noting that it is *not* Slovenian!
This is not obvious to visitors of your site unfamiliar with the Slovenian language.
(You risk something like somebody else copying this picture and forwarding it to others in an e-mail with their own caption: “Slovenian street signs!”)
hey luka and “blank” nodoby is forcing you to come here .. calm down its just a webpage.
The new banner looks great but what about the dragon on the top left? This was built to honor AUSTRIAN emperor Franz Josef I. I thought this was about Slovenia?! What’s the matter with you? ARe you crazy? What if people reading don’t realize it was part of a bridge to honor a FOREIGN emperor?!? Oh no!!!
Good Lord, if this keeps up I’m going to have to refund everyone’s subscription.
Disappointed reader:
Slovenia’s history was Austrian history for over 1000 years. The only monument in Slovenia built to honor a *foreign* emperor is the one for Napolean.
Further, the dragon statues today reside in Slovenia whereas the Serbo-Croatian street sign obviously does not.
I am selling some sarcasm detectors, they come really cheap. They are all brand new, never used and I am absolutely sure they would immensely enhance the lives of a lot of people here
Hey, Michael! I bet the water from Lake Bohinj comes from heaven (or worse - from Koroska) and not from Slovenija. This blog isn’t about heaven - or Koroska -, is it?
Imagine women’s magazines only write about women …
It has never done any harm to look behind the horizon. Life in a country usually is influenced by its neighbors, too.
Tsk tsk, novala. Water to Lake Bohinj comes from a river called Sava Bohinjka, which springs just above tha lake in a beautiful waterfall Savica. The same waterfall is a scene in Preseren’s “Krst pri Savici” - “Baptism at Savica” and is thus as pure-bred Slovene as a thing gets. Bad analogy, dude.
I know what you’re saying, though
Novala:
You are missing the point, which is this:
The picture is misleading as any visitor unfamiliar with the Slovenian language will automatically think this is a Slovenian sign written in the Slovenian language.
Quick and super easy fix: Add to the picture’s caption some mention of the fact it is an amusing sign from “some other former Yugoslav republic.”
Are you people serious or is this some joke i don’t get
Grab your pacifier (aka duda) and head back to sleep…
This is all a dream.
Let’s calm down and put this into perspective - this is a site about SLOVENIA not other countries of europe. If we want to view items about other nations we can see those at the appropriate websites.
Example, if one visits a site on Greece, Serbia or Bulgaria we don’t have a caption that says “ex-Ottoman empire”.
Michael, the simple rule of thumb should be that unless the item is ABOUT Slovenia then it should be posted in another more appropriate site. (no offense to other countries of ex-yu) We would understand if they did the same.
Perhaps a good way to stop this confusion and simplify the matter would be to remove the caption “ex-yu” and replace it with the various countries - Croatia, Serbia-Montenegro, Bosnia, etc.
To Reader in Ann Arbor:
Flamefests? The elimination of user comments? Count YOURSELF as one of the irritating trolls.
We all enjoy reading Michael’s “The Glory of Carniola: Life In Slovenia” entries.
Many Slovenians simply wish the author would be a little more sensitve with respect to culture and Slovenia’s identity. Aside from having a South Slavonic language and a common 73-year history, Slovenians have little in common with Croatians and Serbs.
*Slovenia Crash Course*
CULTURE: Alpine; folk music very similar to Austrian and German (Bavarian)–in fact, the music you hear today at Oktoberfest and German clubs was *heavily* influenced by the Avsenik Ensemble (Slovenian musicians).
HISTORY: 1000+ years with Austria, 3/4 of a century shared with ex-Yugoslav republics.
FOOD: Mixed; heavily influenced by Italy, Austria, Hungary, and relatively recently (within 100 years) Serbia, Albania, and Bosnia (the last two because of recent immigration).
Ann Arbor: I appreciate your concern (no, really) but I don’t think it’s time to start cracking heads. So far I’ve only ever censored one comment (that wasn’t spam) and only because the guy took a joke literally and was complaining about it. Instead of wasting time explaining that I was kidding, I simply terminated his comment with extreme prejudice.
That said, I think the hypersensitivity of many Slovenes w/r/t the country’s identity is in-itself very interesting and revealing. However, that’s not going to stop me from posting more stuff about the former Yugoslavia. Why? Because although this site is mostly about Slovenia (as Roman correctly notes) it’s also written by me, and the subject interests me. Full stop. If someone wants to start paying me to focus exclusively on Slovenia, maybe we can reach an agreement. Until then: No dice, baby.
Also: I don’t for a second buy the idea of Yugoslavia having nothing to do with Slovenia. The majority of Slovenes today were born in Yugoslavia. That’s a fact, and it’s indisputable. Austria’s legacy, while very deep (as blank correctly points out) is not as immediate.
In short: If Yugoslavia-related stuff bugs you, you’re not going to have a pleasant stay here. Luckily I’m not the only blog in Slovenia. There are 40+ more, and I’m pretty sure you won’t even see the word “Yugoslavia” on the majority of them.
Michael, what’s the reason you don’t add another line saying the sign is in serbo-croatian and standing somewhere _outside_ Slovenia? Is it out of pure malice you don’t want to do it?! The “updated” banner is not the solution. Please be exact, if you post an image form Serbia, then for God’s sake, SAY SO. That’s all I’m asking you for.
Hi Michael,
Love the blog, and think you have it just right — it’s about what interests you, whether it’s Slovenia, Croatia, Jim Morrison, /whatever/.
And as you say, the exaggerated sensitivity of some of your readers is an interesting phenomenon in itself. “Slovenians have little in common with Croatians and Serbs”… oh kay.
That said, I agree with Ann Arbor on the banner thing. Best practice is to ignore them, really.
Doug M.
For the record, I have never even suggested this site should be just about Slovenia.
It’s exhausting trying to communicate with someone (Doug, Ann Arbor reader) so predisposed to disregard. But, here goes.
Doug: Obviously you aren’t aware of the bad manners and lack of thought displayed by your predisposition to take things out of context. The complete and veritable statement was:
“Aside from having a South Slavonic language and a common 73-year history, Slovenians have little in common with Croatians and Serbs.”
Doug and Ann Arbor: these aren’t trolls. These are people, who take their patriotism a little too far.
In a way, I have to agree - the main title says “Life in Slovenia” and a first-time visitor to the blog would almost certainl;y think the picture in question was taken in Slovenia.
AS I understand it, people are not complaining about the content, but rather at the fact, that it is not clearly pointed out, that the picure is not Slovenian. The little “ex-Yugoslavia” cathegory really doesn’t do much in that sense.
It is hard for me to find an analogy, but let me put it this way - Do you think Americans would not react in a similar way, if a picture from England was displayed on a website about “Life in the USA”, lets say, ummm in 1790 (14 years after independence).
I can see that this is going to go on forever. In the interest of peace, I’ve added a very clear disclaimer.
I feel a bit like this guy in the Far Side cartoon. Time to have a warm drink and relax.
Nice!
Thanks, Mike. And thank you crni for the clever analogy.
It’s neither bad manners nor lack of thought, blank. I just think you’re wrong.
I lived for years in the former Yugoslavia. And IME and IMO, Slovenes have a great deal in common with Serbs and Croats — much more than just similar languages and a common Yugoslav history. Most obviously, Croats and Slovenes also shared a few centuries of common Austrian and Austro-Hungarian history; but there are also very obvious and striking similarities among all three groups, in everything from gender roles to driving habits. You’re way, way more like each other than any of you are like (say) Italians or Hungarians or Germans.
FWIW, IME Croats are even more outraged by the suggestion that they’re quite similar to Serbs. Even though they, y’know, /are/.
Croats really, really like to think they’re distinct from — and better than — Serbs. That’s a sweeping generalization, and there are honorable exceptions, but basically true. Pointing out the (many) similarities tends to get them upset.
Slovenes… well, enough said for now. Maybe I’ll do a post on this on my own blog sometime.
Doug M.
Dear Doug:
Both Slovenia and the other former ex-Yugoslav republics may be new and mysterious entitities to you, but that doesn’t make them “way, way more like each other than (Slovenians) think.”
There is no defense for ignorance.
I stated one thing, “Aside from having a South Slavonic language and a common 73-year history, Slovenians have little in common with Croatians and Serbs.”
And you treated the statement as if the first part of sentence did not exist: ‘And as you say, the exaggerated sensitivity of some of your readers is an interesting phenomenon in itself. “Slovenians have little in common with Croatians and Serbs”… oh kay.’
Of course the 73-year shared history and the similar language had big an impact. But all you have to offer is driving habits?? Forget gender roles (visit Ljubljana or Maribor and tell me differently).
Virtually any historical book about Yugoslavia mentions the striking differences between Slovenians and
their southern neighbours.
The country looks more like Austria than Croatia, the folk music is more (way more) similar to Austrian than to Croatian, and so on. If you can not see why (most) Slovenians more easily identify with Austria on the whole it is because you have blinders on.
The fact that Slovenia IS a member of both EU and NATO while the countries of the former yugoslavia are NOT says it all. There IS a difference between Slovenia and its southern neighbors.
There is also a difference between Slovenians and Austrians, Italians, etc.
Buts that okay because we are Slovenians and proud of our culture, history, language and heritage.
PS: Foreigners like Doug and others will NOT define who Slovenians are - Slovenians will!
OK, I’m usualy just lurking around here but this time I HAVE to say something. Slovenes have more in common with Austrians and Italians then with Croatians and Serbs? WTH?
I mean… aren’t we forgeting the whole slavic heritage thing here? We are ALL (including Bulgarians and Macedonians) sount slavic people. And as slavic people in general we still have ethnicaly more in common with czechs, slovaks or russians then we EVER will with italians. If you really want to go way back in history don’t forget that all slavic people basicly understood eachother, thus speaking a dialect of the same proto-slavic langauge, which later evolved into many variants we know today.
So I’d think twice before I’d say we’re closer to any germanic or even ugro-finish nation then to our own south slavic ethnic group.
Please, most Austrians are really Germanized Slavs anyway. You think it’s just coincidence Slovakia and Slovenia are *extremely* similar? (way more similar than are Slovenia and former Yugoslav republics–but nobody talks about this here or notices even because of their blinders).
Still, it can’t be denied that Slovenian culture is Alpine.
PS: Who said anything about Slovenians being similar to Italians??
PPS: Even if it were true (i.e. that Slovenians are similar to Italians), I’d never admit it.
If Slovenia has more in common with Czechs, Bulgarians, Russians, etc why is it then that Slovenia is the wealthiest and economically most successful country in central and eastern europe? Why aren’t these other “similar” countries just as successful? The answer is because we are unique and different and that is what is great about being Slovenian. This rubbish about being similar to this group or that is just “rubbish”.
Oh brother…
Wealth has virtually nothing to do with cultural identity. In fact, wealth can come and go.
Language is undeniably the biggest factor, but it is not the only one. Moreover, the Slovenian language is more similar to Slovak than to Serbo-Croatian.
Culture can be defined as “[t]he totatily of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought.” [source: dictionary.com]
I’ve read countless books on Yugoslavia (and Yugoslavs) that have mentioned the fact Slovenians were often viewed as outsiders and even called Germans, as an insult by souther Yugoslavs (i.e. Serbs, Croatians, etc).
1000+ years…
The reason Slovak and Slovene langauges are similar is because of the principality of knez Kocelj which united numerous slavic tribes together. Later the contact between western slavs and the southern slavs (us) was lost while we as the southern slavs remained in contact till the present day. Slovakia had hundreds of years on their own to evolve and differentiate. Thus serbo-croatian is insanely closer to slovene then slovak.
And Austians are most certainly not germanized slavs. Lol… there is a small (relatively) slovene minority in Carinthia, yes. But I don’t think many Austrians from Vienna are really germanized slavs.
And yeah… success of our economy has NOTHING to do with out ethnic background. I mean look at it this way… Romanians, Italians, Spaniards, French, POrtugese… all those countries have common romanic heritage. And they are far from being equaly evolved.
Freddie:
Your assertions that Slovenian is “insanely” closer to Serbo-Croatian than to Slovak is simply false. (You may be familiar with Serbo-Croatian, because you heard it all your life, but it is not more similar. Go visit the Slovak republic.)
Regarding Austria, you simply don’t understand history. Further, Slovenians and Slovaks came from the SAME tribe (”Sloveni”–core Slavs). And Samo’s empire, interestingly enough, consisted of Moravia, Slovakia, Lower Austria (huge province surrounding Vienna) and Carinthia (aka original Slovenian heartland).
Slavs were aggressively Germanized (i.e. forced to change their surnames, give their children German first names, learn and speak only German, etc) throughout history. It was extreme, and even as recent as WW2, for example, Polish children were taken to Germany and brainwashed to hate Poles and Slavs.
There WERE forcefully germanized slavics. I never denied that. I just said they are STILL in minority of the ethnicaly germanic people living in this area.
Regarding the similarity of Slovene to Serbo-Croatian, let me just show you this study on the langauge that I’ve found:
“Related languages: Slovene is related to the other South Slavic languages, particularly to the Čakavian and Kajkavian dialects of Croatian; it is less close to the Štokavian dialect, which is the basis for the Croatian, Bosnian and Serbian standard languages. Slovene is more distantly related to Macedonian and Bulgarian; it also shows correspondences to the central dialect of Slovak in the West Slavic branch.”
Correspondence! That’s it. We have 1000 simiar or the same words. That’s it. Slavic grammar is very much different. Closer to all the other western slavic langauges (Polish, Czech), then Slovene which is infact more closely related to it’s own (southern) group. Furthermore slovenes and slovaks certainly didn’t come from the same tribe. Samo’s empire was a tribal UNION. As in.. many tribes. The reason why slovak shows corespondence with slovene in the first place is the fact that it was INFULENCED by south slavic langauges. mostly slovene. It’s a western slavic langauge with SOME southern features, but still principaly western.
Alright I’m ending this discussion here. Maybe we can start it somewhere else sometime, because this ready feels like hijacking Michael’s blog.
Wealth has everything to do with cultural identity.
Why do you you think countries inhabited by Anglo-Saxons such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the US are economically successful? Because of cultural factors and similarities.
On the other hand, those countries inhabited by Portugese or Spanish invaders such as Argentina, Brazil and other south american nations are economic basket cases.
Many Argentinians will often joke that they should have been colonized by Britain and not Spain.
This debate about whether Slovenia is historically connected to this group or that is irrelevant. The fact is that NO country in Europe (except Iceland) is ethnically pure. All nations are a mixture of various groups who have come together over thousands of years. Slovenia like others is made up of different tribes, eg, celts, roman, germanic, slavic, venetti.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t really matter because we are all just SLOVENIANS.
Ireland used to be an economic basketcase too, but look at them now.
Alright I said that was my last statement, but I just HAVE to reply Andrej on this last statement.
Saying that ethnic background determines economic success of a country is a near racist statement. It’s like saying that germanic tribes are geneticaly better then romanic or slavic ones. I mean that’s pure nonsense. Slavic nations have been represed with the dictatorship regimes for centuries while countries in the west evolved pretty liberaly so far. Plus there are tons of other factors that determined the success of of nations over centuries, and not many of then had anything to do with race.
I mean just look at the orientals. It all depends on the regime and circumstances. Japan and South Korea are economic superpowers, while people in North Korea barely have anything to eat. Yet you can’t argue they all thad the same ethnic background.
Let me correct some false statements;
Firstly, I said culture and wealth ARE connected and that is not “near racist”, its a fact.
Secondly, I did NOT say “ethnicity” or “race”, I said CULTURE. Learn the correct meaning of the word.
Thirdly, of course its nonsense to suggest germanic tribes are genetically better than others but I did NOT say that, you did!
Contradiction No.1: you point out that slavic nations have been repressed by dictatorships as a reason for their lack of success so according to your argument Slovenia must be a “non-slavic” nation because it is successful!
Contradiction No. 2: you claim my statements are near rascist yet you call asians “orientals” Who’s the rascist?
Contradiction No. 3: you use Japan and Sth Korea as examples but what you fail to tell the readers is that these two countries and China have a similar CULTURE of entrepreneurship, thrift and hard work. As does poor Nth Korea which I agree is failing because of its regime.
So my friend, it is a culture of hard work, thrift and entrepreneurship that determines success, NOT race. Slovenia has that culture!
No! Lets get this straight. You specificaly said that countries inhabited by anglo-saxons (descendants of germanic tribes) are more successful, while countries inhabited by spaniards and portugese (descendants of romanic tribes) are less successful . That IS judging success of a country by ethnic group. You say culture… but culture is an integral part of an ethnic group. And that’s what you’re aiming at aren’t you? That slovenes have a germanic cuture, rather then a slavic one.
Yeah, Slovenia IS more succesful then other slavic cultures. Yet is far less successful for now then Italy, Austria, Germany France… And why is it more succesful then the other countries in the region? The close proximity to the borders, and a huge export potential doesn’t have anything to do with that, right? Just like with Slovakia and the Czech Republic. Why do you think THEY’RE succesful? For that same reason.
One more example I could give you, where regime took it’s toll is Romania. They are close to Italians ethnicaly, a romanic culture… yet they’re stuck in recesion on the Balkan peninsula, with the “slavic losers” aren’t they? As are the Hungarians who are a differentculture altogether. And Greeks who were a crucial force in the past, and now find themselves as just another average EU country. And they DID have a culture of progress and success in the past.Long before the new world was even discovered, let alone collonized.
Regarding the oriantals… I called them that cause I wanted to differentiate the far eastern people, from the rest of the Asians, for instance Indians, who are ALSO Asian, (as in… on the Asian continent), without calling them “yellow”, which WOULD be racist. Nothing wrong wirh the word oriental since some native english speaking far eastern people I know use that word to describe THEMSELVES as well.
So what’s wrong with the example I gave? It proves my point. They all have a smiliar culture. Yet there’s a huge gap in their deveolopment. They all come from the same baseline that hard work pays of. And then their success is shaped according to the regime they’re in. South Korea and Japan are hugely successful. So is Taiwan who is quasi-intependant from China and has free market. China was in a mess until their communist doctrine became less rigid. It’s STILL is a communist regime in it’s core though. And China still is very far from S. Korea and Japan. While Countries like Vietnam and North Korea kept the original communist doctrine and dictatorship in the true sense and they’re struggling (Vietnam less so in the last few years, but still). This whole example is the exact proof of my point. Culture has SOMETHING to do with it… but the regime and circumstances the country evolves in are MUCH more important.
Very amusing…
And it’s just small sign on the picture.
For the non Slovenians:
I understand, whay are others so upset. We take this very seriously, even it doesn’t look a big thing to you. 
This page belongs to Michael and he has right to write here whatever he likes. If you feel offended don’t read. Everybody has a right to his own opinion and usually it’s not smart to try to change it. They won’t listen to you anyway. Psi lajajo in karavana gre dalje… 
You must excuse us. We are small nation in a small country and identity means a lot to us. We have much bigger neighbours who have often tried to take this from us.
For Slovenians:
Stop to panic. Identity and who you are is in man’s head. Nobody can take that from you. The point was not in which language the sign is.
But they do…listen.
And more importantly,
sometimes they even…
understand.
We were lucky to live relatively safely in the old, good Austria for 1000+ years. Let us hope we will live equally safely for another 1000+ years in EU.
Austria was good to us: we preserved our language and developed our Western culture.
Compare with what the English did to the Irish, the Welsh, to the Scotsmen.
Or Spaniards to Catalans and Basques.
Or the French to Bretons.
David
Freddie, you have to learn to listen.
I did not say Slovenians have a germanic culture. Slovenians have a Slovenian culture which has evolved over centuries from various influences. This is not rocket science, its logic. As I have already stated, if you bothered to listen, no european nation is ethnically pure (except for Iceland). To use your example, yes Greece was once a great power, as was Egypt and Rome. Why are they no longer so? Because their power was derived from building empires. Today power is about economic success and the culture of hard work, thrift, respect for institutions and peoples freedoms and entrepreneurship. The Soviet Union was a great power too recently, but look at it now. On the other hand, Britian which lost its empire has managed to stay reasonably successful because of its culture.
The Czech and Slovak Republics are NOT successful compared to Slovenia. Infact according to official figures, Slovenia’s GDP per capita is far higher, Slovenians earn far more money and as I’ve said are economically the most successful country in central and eastern europe. That is a fact that is verifiable by any source.
Freddie, perhaps you should focus on the things that UNITE Slovenians not divide us.
And don’t worry about the slavic neighbours or anyone else because they are quite capable of looking after themselves.
Go and have a nice cvicek and put your feet up!
David, it wasn’t the Austrians who preserved our language and culture it was Slovenians. Infact its a testament to the strength and survival of the Slovenian people. Believe me, the Austrians tried to wipe out the Slovenian language and culture but failed miserably.
Good point, Andrej.
The Italians tried to do the same.
I wouldn’t say that they failed miserably though. There are only 2 million Slovenians now, after all.
Nobody mentioned the huge difference in wealth between Austria and Slovenia. The Austrian salaries are more than two times higher than ours. And it is not because of different culture!
It is because of the communism in which we lived for 50 years.
In those years when amorality ruled a lot of Slovenians got corrupted, some more, some less… So our culture was changed too, for the worse…
David
I like the joke!
I am suprised why people make problems because the sign is from an other ex-YU country.
We were once one country, must we hate each other now, because we are seperated?
In West Europe they are trying to make one Europe, here in the East we are trying to make as many republics as possible…
You, guys, are just sick. It is, surely, sick to be obsessed by one’s own country to this extent. It is typical for this region of the world (Balkan syndrome), but, even in this context, it is extreme. Sadly, The US is now infected by the same virus. I also feel the taste of spicy fascism in the coments above. Where else and when did people believe they are just genetically better than other peoples? Could somebody refresh my memory? And it goes so far that you refuse to accept the fact that you are slavic. Well, not all of you, but way too many.